Politics, politics, politics

[DeleHarry]

Both the Tories and Labour's line on Brexit is unachievable. Have cake and eat it is ridiculous.

Do you have any evidence that jumping off a cliff will be good for the economy?

Who wants to jump off a cliff? A minority of the Tory party and some hard line voters in the country.

There are plenty of sensible people in government and opposition who are in favour if leaving the EU which means leaving the single market and customs union. This will then give the UK the freedom to strike trade deals with the EU and with the rest of the world.

You know very well that we cannot remain in the customs union and also be able to have trade deals with other nations outside of the EU

It's likely there will be an interim deal between the article 50 process of leaving the EU in March 2019 and the subsequent agreement of a free trade deal. It's what Hammond said this morning and I'm sure it's what the EU will want too.

It's not a matter if having out cake and eating it. Not many people are going like it but I think the UK will end up paying an annual financial sum to be able to access the eu single maket under any trade agreement. There will be a price to pay imo. That might be the compromise.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Both the Tories and Labour's line on Brexit is unachievable. Have cake and eat it is ridiculous.

Do you have any evidence that jumping off a cliff will be good for the economy?

Why is in unachievable - it's pretty much exactly what Canada already has? Negotiating single membership membership without EU membership was the cake and eating it - what the EU couldn't square. Free trade agreement + co-operation on science and security will be much easier because it's third party status, rather than some half-in half-out fudge.

It will be unchaining our economy from the shackles of a stagnant and inflexible empire. At worse we get bigger tariffs with 15% of the world and smaller ones with 85%. It might take a few years to orientate ourselves away from being little europeans into a global nation, but the opportunities are out there. Australia and New Zealand went through this when we abandoned them in the 70s and they had to quickly mature and engage Asia-Pacific, and they've been generally prospering since.

 

[DeleHarry]

Negotiations start on Monday. We have no government and no agreed negotiating line. Total shambles.

May I ask why are panicking so much? Are you in danger of losing your job because this? Do you fear that someone you know will be sent back to Europe if there is no deal on the right to stay for EU nationals? Or is it to do with your own freedom of movement possibly being restricted if the UK is out of the EU?

 

[SpurMeUp]

May I ask why are panicking so much? Are you in danger of losing your job because this? Do you fear that someone you know will be sent back to Europe if there is no deal on the right to stay for EU nationals? Or is it to do with your own freedom of movement possibly being restricted if the UK is out of the EU?

I'd suggest it's plain and simply a bad move for the UK. We sell to our neighbours predominately. That's a fact no one can deny. Fuk up Brexit and we'll fuk up most of our trade. Isn't that obvious?

Flew back from Scotland this afternoon. Visited a whisky distillery after my work, and they are fearing Brexit. Whisky is one of the UKs biggest exports. Where do you think the largest markets are for whisky?

I asked them if India and china could be opportunities for them - they said these countries already produce their own low grade cheap alternatives, and the populations are poor.

The anarchist in me doesn't mind Brexit. London with less bankers, less wealth wouldn't bother me. I remember London in the 80s and 90s where empty houses were common and there were far less people. All the buy to let lazy cun1s who got rich charging high rents and doing fuk all would have a reality check when demand and values tank. But does Brexit makes sense for our economy? No. Who will it hit hardest? Those who have the least.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[parklane1]

It's the will of the people.

Especially the Daily fail readers any

Con


I thought the rules were to moan and undermine the public till you got your own way.

You only have to read through this thread since the vote to know that is right.

 

[parklane1]

But there's also no rule to say that all debate must stop post-vote.

We should absolutely carry on debating this and putting on pressure where necessary, especially if transpires that the route we're about go down is increasingly revealed to be damaging.

Or do we throw good money after bad? Carry on regardless, just say "well, that's that, can't be helped"?

It's time open our eyes. Boris, Gove, Farage, Fox and the rest sold us down the knitting blog.

We have no government, a lame duck leader, seemingly no plan and about 18 months to sort it out.

We shouldn't silently accept it.

Get over it.

 

[parklane1]

May I ask why are panicking so much? Are you in danger of losing your job because this? Do you fear that someone you know will be sent back to Europe if there is no deal on the right to stay for EU nationals? Or is it to do with your own freedom of movement possibly being restricted if the UK is out of the EU?

For most its because they lost a vote which they said would not happen, and they will scream and scream until they are sick.

 

[DeleHarry]

I'd suggest it's plain and simply a bad move for the UK. We sell to our neighbours predominately. That's a fact no one can deny. Fuk up Brexit and we'll fuk up most of our trade. Isn't that obvious?

Flew back from Scotland this afternoon. Visited a whisky distillery after my work, and they are fearing Brexit. Whisky is one of the UKs biggest exports. Where do you think the largest markets are for whisky?

I asked them if India and china could be opportunities for them - they said these countries already produce their own low grade cheap alternatives, and the populations are poor.

The anarchist in me doesn't mind Brexit. London with less bankers, less wealth wouldn't bother me. I remember London in the 80s and 90s where empty houses were common and there were far less people. All the buy to let lazy cun1s who got rich charging high rents and doing fuk all would have a reality check when demand and values tank. But does Brexit makes sense for our economy? No. Who will it hit hardest? Those who have the least.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

But you are making the assumption there won't be a trade agreement with the EU. Forget about threats from both sides, they each want a trade agreement which is as close as it is now. It benefits both the UK and EU. We've heard a million times that the German car makers, the French wineries and cheese makers, the Dutch flower growers etc all want easy access to the UK's 65 million popoulation.

Also your example about China and India not being interested in whiskey from Scotland because they have their own cheap alternatives and the population is poor is not taking into account the growing rich and middle class elites in both countries who appreciate foreign brands especially British ones and are prepared to spend their huge disposable incomes on higher quality branded goods. Indians love whiskey, with the right marketing and access to the Indian market the Scottish whiskey distillers would have a huge market of interested consumers. Think about it, let's be conservative at 5% of 1 billion people as being potential customers. Do the math

The UK wants to be a global player. It wants to freely trade with everyone and that includes the EU.

 

[SpurMeUp]

For most its because they lost a vote which they said would not happen, and they will scream and scream until they are sick.

You think it's like a football match with sore losers!?

When the NHS has LESS funding, not more, because of Brexit; when teachers get yet another pay freeze, and schools remain under funded because the economy has shrunk and their is less tax revenue. Because the UK doesn't manufacture or sell as many cars, whisky or financial products etc to the WORLDS LARGEST TRADING BLOCK maybe you'll get it? But I doubt it. You'll say something like, people voted now suck it up.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[SpurMeUp]

But you are making the assumption there won't be a trade agreement with the EU. Forget about threats from both sides, they each want a trade agreement which is as close as it is now. It benefits both the UK and EU. We've heard a million times that the German car makers, the French wineries and cheese makers, the Dutch flower growers etc all want easy access to the UK's 65 million popoulation.

Also your example about China and India not being interested in whiskey from Scotland because they have their own cheap alternatives and the population is poor is not taking into account the growing rich and middle class elites in both countries who appreciate foreign brands especially British ones and are prepared to spend their huge disposable incomes on higher quality branded goods. Indians love whiskey, with the right marketing and access to the Indian market the Scottish whiskey distillers would have a huge market of interested consumers. Think about it, let's be conservative at 5% of 1 billion people as being potential customers. Do the math

The UK wants to be a global player. It wants to freely trade with everyone and that includes the EU.

1. You are right trade between Europe and the UK is in both's interests. THATS WHY WE HAVE A TRADING UNION NOW [emoji24] it's mutually beneficial.

2. The whisky info is from the people that make it who know their markets. Cheap whisky is sold by local producers in India and these local producers are best placed to exploit the luxury end too as the market matures. Why? Because they don't have shipping costs and logistics or any EXISTING TARIFFS. It's not like Brexit happens and overnight India gives up its own whisky industry for us to exploit! There is a 150% duty on imported whisky into India.

3. So all the uk has been missing is the right marketing? Had we marketed products better, we'd be selling all over the world? How will Brexit change things? We can and do sell Scotch whisky as an example, all over the world. The biggest consumers of it by far are the French and the Germans.





Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

For most its because they lost a vote which they said would not happen, and they will scream and scream until they are sick.

There's a bit of that, sure.

But in large part I also think it's because this is turning into such a shambles already (we don't need to list the economic indicators or highlight the political turmoil) based on two unnecessary acts of self harm, that people are simply asking "are we still sure about this, it seems like maybe not such a good idea"...

Especially when the decision taken, to a lesser or greater degree, was based on a campaign whose three main tenets (£350m for the NHS, stopping immigration and regaining sovereignty) turned out to be spurious.

But hey, I'll get over it

 

[Baleforce]

There's a bit of that, sure.

But in large part I also think it's because this is turning into such a shambles already (we don't need to list the economic indicators or highlight the political turmoil) based on two unnecessary acts of self harm, that people are simply asking "are we still sure about this, it seems like maybe not such a good idea"...

Especially when the decision taken, to a lesser or greater degree, was based on a campaign whose three main tenets (£350m for the NHS, stopping immigration and regaining sovereignty) turned out to be spurious.

But hey, I'll get over it

you'd think that those who voted leave would be more upset than the other half thus far based on that

 

[DeleHarry]

1. You are right trade between Europe and the UK is in both's interests. THATS WHY WE HAVE A TRADING UNION NOW [emoji24] it's mutually beneficial.

2. The whisky info is from the people that make it who know their markets. Cheap whisky is sold by local producers in India and these local producers are best placed to exploit the luxury end too as the market matures. Why? Because they don't have shipping costs and logistics or any EXISTING TARIFFS. It's not like Brexit happens and overnight India gives up its own whisky industry for us to exploit! There is a 150% duty on imported whisky into India.

3. So all the uk has been missing is the right marketing? Had we marketed products better, we'd be selling all over the world? How will Brexit change things? We can and do sell Scotch whisky as an example, all over the world. The biggest consumers of it by far are the French and the Germans.





Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

You are just being a negative nelly

You still believe the UK is turning its back on the EU market. You are convinced we will never again trade freely with the EU. You dismiss the idea there are other markets to exploit around the world alongside continuing to trade with the EU.

There will be no replacing one with the other. It's about expansion, increasing access and opportunities to what we have now.

Be positive man

 

[SpurMeUp]

You are just being a negative nelly

You still believe the UK is turning its back on the EU market. You are convinced we will never again trade freely with the EU. You dismiss the idea there are other markets to exploit around the world alongside continuing to trade with the EU.

There will be no replacing one with the other. It's about expansion, increasing access and opportunities to what we have now.

Be positive man

The have your cake and eat it dream. Let's hope you're right and the EU gives us open EU trade as well as freedom to broker external trade deals, so we come out of Brexit with a better trading platform than EU members get. So easy! Why didn't I see that?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Bullet]

Every time I see your name I think of Debbie Harry sitting astride Dirty Harry, smoking a cigar, wearing just his shirt.

These are the important things we need to be thinking about

 

[scaramanga]

I'd suggest it's plain and simply a bad move for the UK. We sell to our neighbours predominately. That's a fact no one can deny. Fuk up Brexit and we'll fuk up most of our trade. Isn't that obvious?

Flew back from Scotland this afternoon. Visited a whisky distillery after my work, and they are fearing Brexit. Whisky is one of the UKs biggest exports. Where do you think the largest markets are for whisky?

I asked them if India and china could be opportunities for them - they said these countries already produce their own low grade cheap alternatives, and the populations are poor.

The anarchist in me doesn't mind Brexit. London with less bankers, less wealth wouldn't bother me. I remember London in the 80s and 90s where empty houses were common and there were far less people. All the buy to let lazy cun1s who got rich charging high rents and doing fuk all would have a reality check when demand and values tank. But does Brexit makes sense for our economy? No. Who will it hit hardest? Those who have the least.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Do you genuinely believe that a slight price increase will stop people drinking scotch?

It's not as if they can get it from anywhere else.

 

[milo]

There are plenty of sensible people in government and opposition who are in favour if leaving the EU which means leaving the single market and customs union. This will then give the UK the freedom to strike trade deals with the EU and with the rest of the world.

If they were sensible, we would have had a discussion about the risks and benefits of this and the other options over the last year. Instead we've had tautologous soundbites.

 

[milo]

Do you genuinely believe that a slight price increase will stop people drinking scotch?

It's not as if they can get it from anywhere else.

It's non-tariff barriers that are what we need to watch out for and are more difficult to overcome.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Especially when the decision taken, to a lesser or greater degree, was based on a campaign whose three main tenets (£350m for the NHS, stopping immigration and regaining sovereignty) turned out to be spurious.

How so?

£350m is our weekly net contribution to the EU. It was never all going to be spent on the NHS (that was just a dumb example for dumb people), but we will have that additional money to spend on things. Some may be directed to subsidising agriculture and the more deprived regions, where we do actually get some EU money back. But we are the biggest net contributor to the EU after Germany, and we will get to keep the money that currently subsidises southern europe's siestas.

Freedom of movement will stop in March 2019 and we will get a replacement work permit system where we can control numbers and prioritise people based on skills and personal relations (spouses), rather than nationality.

The jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and the dictats from the European Commission will again stop in March 2019. Parliament will be sovereign again for the first time since the EU started pursuing federalism at Maastricht in 1992.

So I do still expect those three things to happen. They are fully complementary to a free trade agreement + research and security co-operation

 

[scaramanga]

The have your cake and eat it dream. Let's hope you're right and the EU gives us open EU trade as well as freedom to broker external trade deals, so we come out of Brexit with a better trading platform than EU members get. So easy! Why didn't I see that?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

The very worst case the EU can apply is WTO tariffs. We know worst case scenario and it's not that bad. In fact, the savings from paying a fortune to the EU every year could subsidise exports to cover most of that.

That's before we take into account the savings on import because we're able to trade properly with the rest of the world.

Trade is good, protectionism bad.