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So..... Syria?
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Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
I feel so sad for the children particularly, that they are going through what they are when they should be just having fun and learning and growing. As for what is the answer, not got a clue.
But I know it involves lots of countries sitting down and coming to a consensus. Because it needs all of the middle east to get onside and then Russia and the Americans, without them agreeing then I think nothing can improve. I actually think the Russians and Americans are using it as another Cuba and they do not care about Syria, for both those countries it is about strategy in becoming the worlds superpower or staying as the worlds superpower.
I have good friends in Latvia and used to own a home on the coast in Liepaja and they are worried about Russia's intentions, Russia is I feel a big threat to the world's future.
But I know it involves lots of countries sitting down and coming to a consensus. Because it needs all of the middle east to get onside and then Russia and the Americans, without them agreeing then I think nothing can improve. I actually think the Russians and Americans are using it as another Cuba and they do not care about Syria, for both those countries it is about strategy in becoming the worlds superpower or staying as the worlds superpower.
I have good friends in Latvia and used to own a home on the coast in Liepaja and they are worried about Russia's intentions, Russia is I feel a big threat to the world's future.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Les Ferdinand
I worked with a Syrian man who's family left there in the 60's after the coup. He was very sad that he would never return to his country as he felt that the diverse population was being manipulated by outside powers and there would be no solution due to the bad blood between some of the groups. He thought they had a well balanced society but he did come from a reasonably well off family.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Civil wars are always the most unpleasant and vindictive, and they can take generations to get over.
I'd be tempted to redraw the map. Get rid of the colonial construct states of British Iraq and French Syria, and create 3 new Sunni, Shiite and Kurd states based on ethnic population distribution.
I'd be tempted to redraw the map. Get rid of the colonial construct states of British Iraq and French Syria, and create 3 new Sunni, Shiite and Kurd states based on ethnic population distribution.
Or we could just get everyone who classes themselves by their religion to fudge off and have a big war somewhere else, and make the area a nice place to live.
Glenda's Legs
Les Ferdinand
This is awful. Emotive reportage but still heartbreaking
I have not followed the war in Syria that closely, and I feel a bit guilty that I have let it bypass me - a lot easier than trying to get to grips with the nuances of the politics and the situation in general.
I'm not naive and I know there is not a simple solution. But ffs, in this day and age, it is just outrageous to see people - children - having to endure that level of suffering and be caught in the middle of something they can't influence.
I have not followed the war in Syria that closely, and I feel a bit guilty that I have let it bypass me - a lot easier than trying to get to grips with the nuances of the politics and the situation in general.
I'm not naive and I know there is not a simple solution. But ffs, in this day and age, it is just outrageous to see people - children - having to endure that level of suffering and be caught in the middle of something they can't influence.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
That video is the saddest thing i have ever seen. It is not right for anyone to go through this. But those poor little children, how can any humans do that to other humans is beyond what i am capable of understanding.
Why is more not being done to stop it.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Why did Obama say he would intervene if they used chemical weapons and then failed to do so. I know the left like to praise him and slag off George W Bush, but it seems to me that the deaths in Syria are now more then Iraq.
Because we the conservatives didn't have a majority in parliament and needed cross-party support to do so.
Labour obviously thought that playing politics is more important than saving lives and blocked it.
Richie
Naybet
Labour were wrong to whip their MPs against it, but there's no guarantee that the situation would be any better had we intervened. If Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria have shown us anything it's that the Middle East is a lose-lose situation for everyone involved whatever we do
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
I spent time in Syria approx 8 years ago for work, we had two hotels out there and I was promoting them as part of a historical tour package (Lebanon and Syria were in those days high value tours tours)
I often spent 8 days a time travelling from Damascus up to Aleppo taking in all the sites inbetween. Aside from it being one of the most amazing countries in the world it was one of the friendliest in the Middle East that I had visited, it was also very liberal and in some ways western in its views. You could drink as long as it was not within a distance of a mosque and you never felt a threat.
Now I am no political expert but from what I saw back then there was no vibe of unrest or of any real issues with Assad, we had a guide from the University who was elder, he was very open and everyone seemed really happy. I sometimes think that some countries are on a different time than say London, it might be 2016 here but in Syria its not (if that makes sense) and sometimes an Assad is the best for the country than not, at least at that time. Unless there is an exit plan that is for the better of the people from the start it sometimes is better the devil you know.
I often spent 8 days a time travelling from Damascus up to Aleppo taking in all the sites inbetween. Aside from it being one of the most amazing countries in the world it was one of the friendliest in the Middle East that I had visited, it was also very liberal and in some ways western in its views. You could drink as long as it was not within a distance of a mosque and you never felt a threat.
Now I am no political expert but from what I saw back then there was no vibe of unrest or of any real issues with Assad, we had a guide from the University who was elder, he was very open and everyone seemed really happy. I sometimes think that some countries are on a different time than say London, it might be 2016 here but in Syria its not (if that makes sense) and sometimes an Assad is the best for the country than not, at least at that time. Unless there is an exit plan that is for the better of the people from the start it sometimes is better the devil you know.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Sadly, i think the crux of this Syrian conflict is that Assad is a Middle East leader who is not a puppet of the US and wont say "how high" if they say Jump...other than direct regime change, the next best thing is the current situation which is (hoped to be) regime change by proxy, only those pesky Russians are spoiling things a bit...
All very sad, and i wonder if in years to come the Syrian population will be a new set of Stateless people...
All very sad, and i wonder if in years to come the Syrian population will be a new set of Stateless people...
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
The drought (since 2006) has apparently had a big effect
I spent time in Tunisia prior to their Arab Spring. On the surface everything was great, but you could pick up vibes of the underlying authoritarian state - the way everyone was so reverential about the two presidents, and the way the (supposedly non-English-speaking) coach drivers watched the Westernised tour guides. Not particularly implying Syria was the same.
The USA don't care about saving lives, neither do the Russians. The US wants Assad out, the Russians and Iranians want him to stay. With Russian and Iranian support, Assad is going nowhere so, imo, the only thing that can be done is for the US to stop supporting rebel groups and Assad to win the war decisively. When the war is over, negotiate the peace. A horrible qunt wins, but that's just the world. And sometimes, as recent history shows, there are always qunts who are even more horrible waiting in the wings.
@scaramanga you talk a lot of sh1te on this subject and we did it to death in the politics thread iirc.
@scaramanga you talk a lot of sh1te on this subject and we did it to death in the politics thread iirc.
What's talking brick about trying to save lives?
There was plenty of opportunity to stop Assad in his tracks, I believe we had a moral obligation to do so.
It's all in the other thread, I can't be bothered to do it all again. You are talking sh1t. I'm out of this discussion.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
We have known the price of not intervening for a very long time. The people who have failed to consider this information in the past won't be swayed by another piece of information I think.
What we don't have is a direct comparison I suppose. We don't know quite how the situation Iraq would have turned out without an intervention, we don't know quite how it would have worked out with an earlier intervention or Saddam being removed during the first Gulf war. I think there's a very good chance Iraq would have been even more of a mess had there not been an intervention. Similarly we don't know how the former Yugoslavia situation would have ended up without an intervention. Similar with so many conflicts around the world.
I think that's a false dichotomy. It's not an either/or situation. Most countries will be nationalistic to some extent and in terms of geopolitics they will be looking for what benefits them over others. But that doesn't mean they don't care at all about saving lives. It's possible to care about that and at the same time care about your own interests in the world at the same time. Some decisions will reflect focusing on one over the other, I agree. But I really don't think the US don't care at all about saving lives. Governments are made up of people, unless they're all bloody psychopaths they will care to some extent.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Agree.