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Maggie

I know a fair few miners who lived through Thatcher's era. She ruined them and stripped them of their dignity, confining an entire region to a lifetime of poverty and anguish. Hearing the stories would bring you close to tears.

Combine that with her support for Apartheid and Pinochet, I'm sure a few people will be partying tonight. History will judge her very poorly.

She didn't support Apartheid, she refused to embargo SA because of it. I recommend reading her memoirs where she illustrates just how tough a decision that was. Anyone could see at the time that the embargoes hurt the (mostly black) poor and did nothing to stop the rich white people doing what they were doing. Any embargo would have been an empty political statement - something we've got very used to in the last 16 years.
 
She didn't support Apartheid, she refused to embargo SA because of it. I recommend reading her memoirs where she illustrates just how tough a decision that was. Anyone could see at the time that the embargoes hurt the (mostly black) poor and did nothing to stop the rich white people doing what they were doing. Any embargo would have been an empty political statement - something we've got very used to in the last 16 years.

What about Pinochet?
 
She didn't support Apartheid, she refused to embargo SA because of it. I recommend reading her memoirs where she illustrates just how tough a decision that was. Anyone could see at the time that the embargoes hurt the (mostly black) poor and did nothing to stop the rich white people doing what they were doing. Any embargo would have been an empty political statement - something we've got very used to in the last 16 years.

Not supporting sanctions was tactic support of the regime, however you spin it. She frequently referred to Mandela and the ANC as terrorists, refused to support his release or ANC activities, which was directly at odds with British public support.

The current leader of the Conservatives has even criticized this. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2006/08/27/cameron-criticises-thatcher-over-apartheid

She had a chance to make a difference and did nothing substantial, preferring to support the status quo. This decision will forever taint her memory.
 
On a serious note do people really think at points in history that Mandela and ANC were not involved in terrorism regardless of how just their cause was?
 
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One Direction fans.
 
Thatcher......

There really is some utter horsebrick spoken about this woman, and what she did, or 'achieved'. Often by those who have not suffered directly from her actions and policies. Thankfully, some others can see the truth, as expressed in this thread. How much of 'The Truth' comes out now, in the media, with all of the gushing and revolting accolades, remains to be seen.

She got into power, in May 1979, and this country was ruined over the next decade by her policies, actions and attitude.

1. Strikes in the 1970's? Much had been down to shocking management. That is casually brushed under the carpet. Some union activity was unacceptable, but the biggest problem with unions then was there were far too many of them. Hundreds, literally. Often infighting. The other element that impacted on industrial relations was the class system. The 'Us and Them' mentality, with both sides trying to get the upper hand.

2. The economy. Her attitude was 'why do we need industry and manufacturing when we have the financial sector?' Recent events may fly in the face of that!

And what did she do?


The Industrial and Economic Disaster.

A rather unpleasant world recession hit this country in 1980. Thatcher, newly-elected, did what precisely, to help/protect British industry? Bugger-all. She cast it adrift. The north and midlands job-base was decimated. I will stick close to home: Sheffield and Rotherham were steel towns. It was the main job-base here, and the reason for their existance, with a large population built up over 200 years. In 1980, Sheffield was the 4th biggest city in England. After making promises (pre-election) to the steelworkers, notably in a famous film taken in Dunford Hadfields (now the home/site of the very lovely Meadowhall shopping centre) which was widely shown, Thatcher then did a complete U turn after being elected. An act of treatchery not too different to Campbells. She then stood by and let the industry go to the wall. The job-base of the area was destroyed. Its never recovered.

Then there was the second hammer blow, shortly afterwards. The coal industry was the other big employers in the area.

Thatcher decided to pick on the coal industry as the next target. The miners strike of 1984-85 is legend. She feared the miners union as the biggest threat to her Government and its survival. So the way to destroy the union and the threat was to destroy the industry. So then 'uneconomic pits' was that justification. Except that much of that argument was horsebrick. Thatcher used economic arguments to achieve political objectives. She conned voters. The miners was the most acute example. Grimethorpe, near Barnsley. A solid mining place. One of many. In 1997, a good 12 years after the miners strike, the place still looked like Beirut. I did a survey there. I was horrified.

The area of South Yorkshire has never recovered from the disasters of the 1980's, and has been in recession ever since. Nowhere near enough jobs for the population. Those industries needed to be modernised, not destroyed. They needed change and investment, as other European countries did with their similar industries. Remarkably, the little that is now left is Scandinavian or Indian-owned. Few local people work for them.

The Apprenticeship System.

Not being satisfied with wrecking British industry in general, the Thatcher Government then set about wrecking its future further by removing the apprenticeship system and replacing it with The Youth Training Scheme (YTS). 1980's. Scary, a disaster and we have now gone full-cicle and are moving back to apprenticeships! I rest my case.

The North-South Divide

The north and midlands were trashed by Thatchers Government in the 1980's, whilst the south prospered. Merseyside was slaughtered for jobs. So was the N/E. We moved to the north from the south in the late 1960's, and at that time the North-South Divide was largely a cultural one. The 1980's saw the development of that divide into an economic one. Its now colossal.

The Falklands War.

You have got to be joking! It was Thatchers Government's fault it happened in the first place. The Foreign Office screwed up and did not act on the tell-tale signs of trouble looming, in advance. They were there. Argentinian intentions were clear. Lord Carrington of the Foreign Office bit the bullet and resigned over the fiasco. Thatchers Fall-Guy for it. The Conflict (not 'war'. War was never declared) was a military victory, pure and simple. Yet Thatcher milked it and won the next election on the strengh of it. She would have lost without it, with all of the unrest at the time. Riots being the tip of it.

Privatisation.

Asset stripping on a grand scale, and selling-off the family jewels for a fast buck. Where was my 'cut', incidentally, when a public-owned body is sold off?

Greed is Good.

According to Mrs T. Only one snag with that, though. No it isn't. The short-termism instilled into this country from her reign has twisted its mindset for the worse.

Squandering for Politics

North Sea oil revenue in the 1980's should have really been put to good use. Instead Thatcher squandered it on funding mass unemployment, created by her in the first place, and largely in the north and the midlands!


The New Statesman on TV really did say it all; arrogance, greed, me, now, don't care about others as long as 'I'm all right Jack'.

I would love to have done her school report for her 10 year reign. It would be a fail across the board.
 
Sigh...........predictable responses on here.

From both sides, TBH.

At the end of the day, she did some wonderful things for some people, and some bricky ones for others.

Which, in all honesty, hasn't changed a great deal since, has it? Regardless of which party is in power.

Not mourning her death, not having a (dis-tasteful) celebratory drink either.
 
Regardless of her individual policies, she was a leader who actually led. RIP.

Yes, she did make several policy mistakes, mostly towards the end of her career, but I think overall she left the country in a better state than when she was elected.
 
One thing I've always wondered about the coal mines. If there is profit to be made, why aren't they still running (likely in private hands)?

And if there isn't any profit to be made then they were rightly closed. Coal mining isn't a charity just to give northerners jobs.
 
Regardless of her individual policies, she was a leader who actually led. RIP.

Yes, she did make several policy mistakes, mostly towards the end of her career, but I think overall she left the country in a better state than when she was elected.

Do you really believe that?

Go to Rotherham, or Barnsley, or S****horpe, or Middlesborough, or Liverpool, or Doncaster, or Saudi Sportswashing Machine, or Sheffield. And take up that viewpoint.

Are you in Surrey?

That woman ruined the north's job base. May she burn in hell.
 
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Sigh...........predictable responses on here.

From both sides, TBH.

At the end of the day, she did some wonderful things for some people, and some bricky ones for others.

Which, in all honesty, hasn't changed a great deal since, has it? Regardless of which party is in power.

Not mourning her death, not having a (dis-tasteful) celebratory drink either.


The trouble is, the bricky ones were for those in the north, while the south got the much better deal. And thats a fact.
 
Do you really believe that?

Go to Rotherham, or Barnsley, or S****horpe, or Middlesborough, or Liverpool, or Doncaster, or Saudi Sportswashing Machine, or Sheffield. And take up that viewpoint.

Are you in Surrey?

That woman ruined the north's job base. May she burn in hell.

I'm from Sussex, so that is where my perspective is from. If I was from the North I would probably have the same perspective as you.

Any leader's policies of any sort will have winners and losers. She won three elections, therefore I think it is fair to say her policies, at the time, benefitted more people than they hurt.
 
do you think those things would not have happened had Heath or Whitelaw won the leadership?

Or didn't happen under Blair, Brown, Wilson.

She did lots of damage to communities, she did what she thought necessary to turn round the economy post the '70s mess that the country had sunk into. Did she destroy our manufacturing or did the over-Unionised industry destroy itself? Was it ever really productive post-The Empire?

Lots of people spouting on here based on their own local myths and prejudices but the bottom line to me is that she was a strong (and often misguided) leader but she was open about her policies and directions in a way that weasels like Blair didn't have the gonad*s to be and did no more damage than Blair just in different ways.

Didn't like her, didn't vote for her but did admire her in a way that no other politician of the last 40 years has come close to.
 
They were not myths. Totally destroyed huge chunks of south Yorkshire. It had a direct impact on my family, which had everything to do with her governments policies
 
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