New Stadium and Training Ground - Pg 104 Northumberland Park master plan

[JPG_357]

At weekends that's all well and good but for mid-week matches (hopefully Spurs are Champions League regulars in future seasons!) it is a mare to get to The Lane for a 7:45 kick off for those of us not living in London, as can't always get the afternoon off work and the trains are invariably absolutely packed during the evening rush hour as it is.

Fair comment, but people used to have the same problem in the 60s. The games kicked off at 7.30 then. Somehow 65,000 crammed in for games against Benfica & co then. At least we get to watch all the games in full on TV/computer these days. Wasn't so available then. If you can't get there early enough, you're probably better off watching at home.

Of course some will try to make the game with no realistic leeway, then chances are it'll be a 'Clockwise' experience for them. I wish the public transport system was much, much better, but it isn't and I doubt it will be in the next twenty years, if ever.


I've no idea when/if this stadium will be built, but I do know it shouldn't depend on a massive upgrade in transport infrastructure. It just won't happen.

I was all for us (along with Levy) for going to the Olympic stadium, because that has a fantastic infrastructure. but it wasn't to be.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Fair comment, but people used to have the same problem in the 60s. The games kicked off at 7.30 then. Somehow 65,000 crammed in for games against Benfica & co then. At least we get to watch all the games in full on TV/computer these days. Wasn't so available then. If you can't get there early enough, you're probably better off watching at home.

Of course some will try to make the game with no realistic leeway, then chances are it'll be a 'Clockwise' experience for them. I wish the public transport system was much, much better, but it isn't and I doubt it will be in the next twenty years, if ever.


I've no idea when/if this stadium will be built, but I do know it shouldn't depend on a massive upgrade in transport infrastructure. It just won't happen.

I was all for us (along with Levy) for going to the Olympic stadium, because that has a fantastic infrastructure. but it wasn't to be.

Good points. Although wouldn't a much higher % of Tottenham fans have lived locally back in the 60s? Plus London' road and rail infrastructure probably wasn't quite so congested with commuters back then, I've only been going to matches since the early 1990s but even in that time I've noticed that the Underground is much more packed especially on weekdays.

Like you say though, the transport infrastructure always seems to be built in response to a surge in demand rather than anticipating it.

 

[JPG_357]

Fair points Steve, you're right more were locals in the 60s. It's quite horrible to me to see how Tottenham itself is no longer Spurs country except on match days. Another reason why I had no problems in going to Stratford.. Tottenham is not Spurs anymore, just as West Ham isn't West ham anymore, etc.

The Underground is a nightmare. In the 60s there was a thing called 'rush hour', by the time I quit 'commuter hell' a few years back it was 'rush day' from 7am - 11 pm weekdays, not much better on weekends.

The system simply won't cope with our large crowds unless people adapt their behaviour. But they will, I've no doubts. Arsenal seem better served with transport, but anyway they get 60,000 in without any undue stress. I assume people stagger their arrival times. Our fans will have to do the same.

Anyway, as we agree the transport we need won't be there, but it's no reason to stop the stadium.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Fair points Steve, you're right more were locals in the 60s. It's quite horrible to me to see how Tottenham itself is no longer Spurs country except on match days. Another reason why I had no problems in going to Stratford.. Tottenham is not Spurs anymore, just as West Ham isn't West ham anymore, etc.

The Underground is a nightmare. In the 60s there was a thing called 'rush hour', by the time I quit 'commuter hell' a few years back it was 'rush day' from 7am - 11 pm weekdays, not much better on weekends.

The system simply won't cope with our large crowds unless people adapt their behaviour. But they will, I've no doubts. Arsenal seem better served with transport, but anyway they get 60,000 in without any undue stress. I assume people stagger their arrival times. Our fans will have to do the same.

Anyway, as we agree the transport we need won't be there, but it's no reason to stop the stadium.

I have always thought if it was a big problem we could just stagger the leaving times of the stands, so for example you could take it in turns one stand were allowed to go on the whistle the next stand would wait 15 minutes and so on. Can not imagine anyone would have a problem with this and if you knew in advance and had to get out early you could still leave 10 minutes before the finish if you really had to go before your stands allocated time.

For me going to stratford was a big no no but that is all in the past now, also feel strongly that the government should be investing in tottenham. When we had labour they never did because tottenham is such a strong labour seat they did not need to buy votes, the tories will never invest because they have no chance of ever getting in.

 

[jts1882]

One of the reasons for developing the plaza and a stadium approach is to add some distractions to try and stagger the crowd flow to the stations. The existing transport can carry a lot of people but the problem with big sports/entertainment venues is them all leaving at once. If the stadium approach had places for people to grab a quick drink or something to eat, it would provide local business plus ease the transport.

 

[Dicko]

One of the reasons for developing the plaza and a stadium approach is to add some distractions to try and stagger the crowd flow to the stations. The existing transport can carry a lot of people but the problem with big sports/entertainment venues is them all leaving at once. If the stadium approach had places for people to grab a quick drink or something to eat, it would provide local business plus ease the transport.

This is a good point. It'll be interesting to see just how much comes with the new stadium. Anything that is able to get people to get their earlier and/or stay after the game and spend/enjoy the experience rather than bolting for the quickest train at the final whistle will have a huge knock on benefit.

 

[Bullet]

This is true, Tottenham is a total brick hole so after the match you just wanna run for the hills and get outta dodge with as few stab holes as possible.

I remember watching England play Andorra in Barcelona at the Olympic Stadium up on the hill at Montjuc.

After the game there were a few buses and a tiny funicular railway, so the majority of people had to walk all the way down the huge hill down some random pathways and through the badlands and backstreets of downtown Barca.

Bit by bit the crowd thinned out and you start seeing shady groups hanging around, and at one point you've got 10,000 people behind you, then 1,000, then 100, then you realise you better get back to the bright lights before someone turns you inside out and uses your spine as a lamp stand.

 

[chicken_badge]

I personally think a lot of the problem is road traffic. If we could get the High Road moving, get busses flowing, get cars away from the ground and onto the North Circular and away then that will help a lot. Shuttle busses to Seven Sisters, along with more trains on Victoria Line and from White Hart Lane Rail and it really isn't a problem.

But I have to see every time I come away from WHL I think, "and they want to get another 20,000 people here??".

 

[jimmyb]

Had a first proper look at the supermarket / brand centre / education building today. Really coming on. Looks much bigger than I thought it would. And given that, according to the renders, the stadium dwarfs it, then the stadium is going to be very impressive indeed.

Also, just seeing the supermarket makes it all the more real. It gives us an idea of where the new north end of the stadium will be.

 

[jimmyb]

This is true, Tottenham is a total brick hole so after the match you just wanna run for the hills and get outta dodge with as few stab holes as possible.

I remember watching England play Andorra in Barcelona at the Olympic Stadium up on the hill at Montjuc.

After the game there were a few buses and a tiny funicular railway, so the majority of people had to walk all the way down the huge hill down some random pathways and through the badlands and backstreets of downtown Barca.

Bit by bit the crowd thinned out and you start seeing shady groups hanging around, and at one point you've got 10,000 people behind you, then 1,000, then 100, then you realise you better get back to the bright lights before someone turns you inside out and uses your spine as a lamp stand.

I once made the mistake of staying behind for a few drinks after a night game and then taking my usual route back to my car, across Bruce Castle Park. There is no lighting in the park but, as I was about halfway across it, I was able to make out various shadowy groups hanging around. Suddenly realised what a stupid thing it was to have done - in any area, really, let alone Tottenham. It's fine to walk across that park when there are plenty of other Spurs fans doing the same. Not fine when it's just you in the pitch black. I was mighty happy to get to the far end unscathed!

 

[AdamB]

Daft question but who owns the supermarket? Did we buy the land around the ground and are leasing the land/building to Sainsburys? Or just we just buy the land that we need for the ground?

Reason for asking is that, firstly, if we are leasing the land/building to Sainissury's that thats a regular income which has very limited downside and secondly, if we dont own the supermarket, I'm struggling to see why its always been said that the suprtmarket section needed to be done first.....the implication of that needing to be done first was always that it was a financial consideration driving it (ie if we did own that land, then getting the supermarket up asap would be the best way forwards given its a lot quicker than building the stadium and would generate an income)

 

[jimmyb]

Daft question but who owns the supermarket? Did we buy the land around the ground and are leasing the land/building to Sainsburys? Or just we just buy the land that we need for the ground?

Reason for asking is that, firstly, if we are leasing the land/building to Sainissury's that thats a regular income which has very limited downside and secondly, if we dont own the supermarket, I'm struggling to see why its always been said that the suprtmarket section needed to be done first.....the implication of that needing to be done first was always that it was a financial consideration driving it (ie if we did own that land, then getting the supermarket up asap would be the best way forwards given its a lot quicker than building the stadium and would generate an income)

We own what's there at the moment. The land is ours and we are paying for the construction.

Don't know whether we're going to rent or sell the supermarket part of it to Sainsburys, though.

 

[Superhudd]

Nothing earth shattering, first two are from infront the North Stand, next four were whilst driving down the side of the Supermarket. I hope I conformed to Jimmy's photo taking criteria. :-"

 

[jimmyb]

Nothing earth shattering, first two are from infront the North Stand, next four were whilst driving down the side of the Supermarket. I hope I conformed to Jimmy's photo taking criteria. :-"

Ha!

To be fair, I think I had a point about that photo! It did consist of about 70% sky and tarmac and only 30% building. Hoping now that it wasn't you who took it!

Thanks for these latest ones, by the way. They pass.

P.S. Hope you don't mind if I copy them to the Skyscrapercity thread.

 

[Superhudd]

Ha!

To be fair, I think I had a point about that photo! It did consist of about 70% sky and tarmac and only 30% building. Hoping now that it wasn't you who took it!

Thanks for these latest ones, by the way. They pass.

P.S. Hope you don't mind if I copy them to the Skyscrapercity thread.

Last one wasn't by me, and yeah that's fine share away.

Photo's taken around 11:20 this morning.

 

[Superhudd]

:-k From KSS twitter account from event 12-13 Dec 2012 in Amsterdam

 

[Superhudd]

Nice video.. lol @ Beckham blister.

[video=youtube;UqcsKoBVIBw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqcsKoBVIBw[/video]

 

[paxtonwolf]

Good photos Superhudd. Agree with Jimmyb too, had a quick peek after walking past the Bill Nick. It certainly looks bigger than I expected, and you do get that feeling that its really gonna happen now

 

[Superhudd]

Amazing how that structure is going to hold up all those cars!

 

[AdamB]

We own what's there at the moment. The land is ours and we are paying for the construction.

Don't know whether we're going to rent or sell the supermarket part of it to Sainsburys, though.

thats good. Even if we sell it, it'll be worth more when developed