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Financial Results

Finney Is Back said:
Some interesting numbers. So what will go up/down from there next year?

It looks like the club separate out the corporate tickets from the gate receipts.... If we look at the new stadium then we have 42,000 season ticket holders probably paying an average of what? £1,100 when you factor in concessions etc? So that's about £46M. + away fans 19 x 3,000 x £30 = £1.7M. + about 8,000 non ST holders paying I guess an average of £50 for the PL games, that's 19 x 8,000 x £50 = £7.6 million. £54.5 million. So PL gate receipts should go up by about £20 million

Sponsorship and corporate hospitality I would imagine will be reasonably flat. I don't think we have any large major deals that have come into effect since last season, I would expect our sponsorship bonuses will be down from last year due to our early exit from the CL this season. I would imagine that corporate tickets for the stadium at Spurs are priced higher than Wembley but that is probably balanced out by the fact that Wembley has more corp seats than our new stadium.

CL revenue is likely to be similar to 2018 (perhaps even lower as finishing 4th gives us a lower share of the TV pot and the new long lived coefficient scoring will also adversely impact us here).... Let's call that a £50 million drop from last season.

I would imagine that 'other revenue' will go up a reasonable amount compared to last year as the stadium is heaving before games and still reasonably busy afterwards. Pure speculation but I could see another £10 million being added here on a like for like basis. I would imagine that going forward this revenue stream would also include the revenue from the non football events at the stadium, I think there was scheduled to be 5 of these before the end of June, so perhaps another £10 million there. So £20 million of additional revenue this season

Television and media revenues will reduce compared to last season as we will finish lower in the league. I expect we will also be shown less times on TV due to not really competing at either end of the table. Domestic Cup revenue will probably be reasonably flat on last season, as even though we exited the cups reasonably early we did have 3 home cup games all with reasonable crowds. Let's say that we'll drop £10 million here

So at a guess the income for this season will be about £20 million down on last season.* That isn't too bad really considering we had a record run to the CL final in that season. Also as we're no longer having to rent Wembley and paying only cost of debt on the new stadium as opposed to cost of build and debt, the actual underlying profit before football trading and depreciation could be even higher than last year (although that depends on what has happened to our wage bill between 2019 and 2020).

* Of course all of the above assumes no impact from Covid-19 and that all remaining matches/events take place under normal conditions and complete before the end of June 2020.
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I did some crude sums a while back and have stadium revenue at around £100m minimum so way above your numbers there

Don’t forget we will be paying less wages this season too as bonuses won’t be getting paid

but of course we have invested £170m from somewhere
 
Finney Is Back said:
Some interesting numbers. So what will go up/down from there next year?

It looks like the club separate out the corporate tickets from the gate receipts.... If we look at the new stadium then we have 42,000 season ticket holders probably paying an average of what? £1,100 when you factor in concessions etc? So that's about £46M. + away fans 19 x 3,000 x £30 = £1.7M. + about 8,000 non ST holders paying I guess an average of £50 for the PL games, that's 19 x 8,000 x £50 = £7.6 million. £54.5 million. So PL gate receipts should go up by about £20 million

Sponsorship and corporate hospitality I would imagine will be reasonably flat. I don't think we have any large major deals that have come into effect since last season, I would expect our sponsorship bonuses will be down from last year due to our early exit from the CL this season. I would imagine that corporate tickets for the stadium at Spurs are priced higher than Wembley but that is probably balanced out by the fact that Wembley has more corp seats than our new stadium.

CL revenue is likely to be similar to 2018 (perhaps even lower as finishing 4th gives us a lower share of the TV pot and the new long lived coefficient scoring will also adversely impact us here).... Let's call that a £50 million drop from last season.

I would imagine that 'other revenue' will go up a reasonable amount compared to last year as the stadium is heaving before games and still reasonably busy afterwards. Pure speculation but I could see another £10 million being added here on a like for like basis. I would imagine that going forward this revenue stream would also include the revenue from the non football events at the stadium, I think there was scheduled to be 5 of these before the end of June, so perhaps another £10 million there. So £20 million of additional revenue this season

Television and media revenues will reduce compared to last season as we will finish lower in the league. I expect we will also be shown less times on TV due to not really competing at either end of the table. Domestic Cup revenue will probably be reasonably flat on last season, as even though we exited the cups reasonably early we did have 3 home cup games all with reasonable crowds. Let's say that we'll drop £10 million here

So at a guess the income for this season will be about £20 million down on last season.* That isn't too bad really considering we had a record run to the CL final in that season. Also as we're no longer having to rent Wembley and paying only cost of debt on the new stadium as opposed to cost of build and debt, the actual underlying profit before football trading and depreciation could be even higher than last year (although that depends on what has happened to our wage bill between 2019 and 2020).

* Of course all of the above assumes no impact from Covid-19 and that all remaining matches/events take place under normal conditions and complete before the end of June 2020.
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Looking at the above again. Interesting that the 'other revenue' jumped from £14.5 to £24.1 million between 2018 and 2019. I can only really think that this other revenue is from food and drink sales and other events at the stadium.... If so, the fact that it went up by this much in 2019 despite the attendances at Wembley being so much lower compared to 2018 would appear to be very positive for the new stadium. It may well be that my £10 million additional revenue estimate here is too low by a factor of 2 or 3 times and that increase may well mean our revenue does not even fall at all for the 2020 season, which would be remarkable really considering the CL differential.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Surely food and drink comes into the 'other revenue' category.

Thinking further I guess revenue from memberships might also fall into this pot?
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I know for Wembley we didn’t get any revenue on food and drink last season. I know some people that work at Wembley and that was Fa income
I don’t know the answer on hospitality food and drink though but there is a big number in there for that already
Memberships would be in other I agree
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I did some crude sums a while back and have stadium revenue at around £100m minimum so way above your numbers there

Don’t forget we will be paying less wages this season too as bonuses won’t be getting paid

but of course we have invested £170m from somewhere
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Depends what you are including in that revenue though?

It seems that the club separate out several streams:
1. PL Gate revenue. I think this is just bums on seats ticket revenue (ST's and match day tickets). Which works out at £1.81 million per PL game last season compared to £2.24 million per game the year before (which probably makes reasonable sense as gates must've been down 20% or so at Wembley last season.
2. Corporate revenue (this is combined with sponsorship)
3. Catering revenue (I guess comes into 'other')?

I was just comparing apples with apples so the 'bums on seats' numbers for the new stadium - 42,000 ST holders, 3,000 away fans and 8,000 casual fans (I am assuming that at least 1,000 tickets per game are for players families, officials and guests)
 
Finney Is Back said:
Depends what you are including in that revenue though?

It seems that the club separate out several streams:
1. PL Gate revenue. I think this is just bums on seats ticket revenue (ST's and match day tickets). Which works out at £1.81 million per PL game last season compared to £2.24 million per game the year before (which probably makes reasonable sense as gates must've been down 20% or so at Wembley last season.
2. Corporate revenue (this is combined with sponsorship)
3. Catering revenue (I guess comes into 'other')?

I was just comparing apples with apples so the 'bums on seats' numbers for the new stadium - 42,000 ST holders, 3,000 away fans and 8,000 casual fans (I am assuming that at least 1,000 tickets per game are for players families, officials and guests)
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I’d have to dig out the numbers I did
it did include CL or European games gate receipts which was relevant at the time
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I know for Wembley we didn’t get any revenue on food and drink last season. I know some people that work at Wembley and that was Fa income
I don’t know the answer on hospitality food and drink though but there is a big number in there for that already
Memberships would be in other I agree
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Usually the rental price is set low if the venue gets to keep the food and drink sales and a high rental price would see the tenant renting the stadium keep the food and drink sales. In saying that I suppose Wembley had us over a barrel last season. Though if that were the case then I would've expected to see the 'other' number fall between 2018 and 2019? Unless we were not receiving much if any of this revenue in either season and the jump is purely from the 5 matches at the new lane??
 
Finney Is Back said:
Usually the rental price is set low if the venue gets to keep the food and drink sales and a high rental price would see the tenant renting the stadium keep the food and drink sales. In saying that I suppose Wembley had us over a barrel last season. Though if that were the case then I would've expected to see the 'other' number fall between 2018 and 2019? Unless we were not receiving much if any of this revenue in either season and the jump is purely from the 5 matches at the new lane??
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Wembley took the profit on the food and drink last season but no idea the previous one as my mate wasn’t working there then

could be the jump to the new lane because we also had test events with some real drinking
 
Bedfordspurs said:
People are saying wat did you expect ...

I excepted to pay more but the new model has such a range of prices it’s bonkers

Doing some basic maths..,

Assume we have 55000 fans paying on average £70 a game (using the average of £1400 a season ticket divided by 19 game and rounding down)

That’s £73M for the league game just in gate receipts excluding any corporate money or other fan expenditure

Add in domestic cup and European games ...

So 3 CL group games at an a everage of £70 a seat brings in another £11.5M

Say we added £10 a head for food and drink bought in match days from the 55000 ... that’s £500k minimum more so including CL and league only another £11m of revenue (but the club would be targeting double that and more I believe with the new offer)

Domestic cup will be much cheaper as the club clearly don’t value them as much as the fans might... but it’s not unreasonable for the club to bring in £2m in revenue for those games

So doing the crude basic maths ...

For the normal fans the club would get roughly 100M if we have two cup home games in top of CL and league

Arsenal we’re doing that including their corporate

These are all hypothetical numbers and I may have under and over estimated...

But corporate could add £20m to these numbers and then you have sponsorships and naming rights

The ground could bring in £150M a season
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here you go @Finney Is Back

I did it more on occupancy but obviously it was guess work and a bit of logic
 
Bedfordspurs said:
here you go @Finney Is Back

I did it more on occupancy but obviously it was guess work and a bit of logic
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Fair does.... We won't have 55,000 fans paying that much though.

8,000 corps. 1,000 tickets going gratis to officials etc, 3,000 away fans paying £30 a pop. That leaves 50,000.

I'm not sure that the average is as high as £1,400 either. Remember that we have a decent number of juniors, young adults and seniors paying concessionary prices....

I guess we'll see in a year's time when the 2020 numbers are out.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Fair does.... We won't have 55,000 fans paying that much though.

8,000 corps. 1,000 tickets going gratis to officials etc, 3,000 away fans paying £30 a pop. That leaves 50,000.

I'm not sure that the average is as high as £1,400 either. Remember that we have a decent number of juniors, young adults and seniors paying concessionary prices....

I guess we'll see in a year's time when the 2020 numbers are out.
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We also have match day tickets that sell at £150 on both sides of the stadium
And there are a lot of them
We don’t have many concessions as their actually restricted as to where they can sit

I just did the sums again and looked at average ticket prices across the ground and £70 a game is actually low IMO

But premier league only:
42000 STs at £70 a game is £56m
3000 away at £30 a game is £1.7m
7000 casual fans at £70 a game is £9.3m
So that’s £67m
If everyone was to spend a tenner it’s an additional £500k per game... most spend more which is why there is talk of £1m a game in additional revenue

corporate seats averaged about £4K a seat when I looked before and their sold on a 4 year deal IIRC...
and of course there’s food and drink there an not unreasonable to say they spend £50 a head game (the box I used to go to spent around £900 a Game for food a drink for 8 people)
So corporate would be by my rough estimate £32m a season for league games in seat cost and around £8m in food and drink.

but we will see at some point if we ever finish a season
 
SteveAWOL said:
Thread on latest annual report

https://twitter.com/x/status/1244943908439801856
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Don't think that £357m number is anything to do with profit?

I think the £357m number is equity (i.e. assets minus liabilities).... i.e. if you tot up the value of everything that we own (including cash in bank) and take away everything that we owe (including shareholder capital) then what we own is worth £357 more in value than everything that we owe.

I have advocated for a while that it would've been great for Lewis and Levy to inject more shareholder capital. They have both got a lot richer (on paper) through Spurs. It would be great if they put even some of that wealth back into the club as shareholder capital.
 
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