OMT - Tottenham Hotspur vs Smoggies in FA Cup

[Bedfordspurs]

Nominations for Aurier, Alderweireld, Moura and Son. Anyone else?

No

 

[glasgowspur]

Agreed. This is it for me. A lot of the discussion around this or that player is nearly irrelevant. They are all somewhat talented to varying degrees. There’s just a mix of don’t wanna be here anymore / don’t know why they joined in the first place / nothing left to give.

The identity we had is gone. The culture we had is gone. Try as these players might, you can’t cheat the direction of sporting travel and we’ve tried to do it. They all have value as pro footballers. At other clubs they can play important roles. As a collective together here, I think they’ve had it.

We’ll win a few games this season. We’ll lose a few. We’ll labour to a few draws, but I’ll be stunned if we manage to make top 4 or win this thing. I hope to be proven wrong but FFS, you’ve got Liverpool’s kids out there winning a derby against a team of men, first 11 players, and we’re umming over whether Serge or Dele are bringing what they need to bring. It’s Middlesbrough lads...we’ve fudged it.

We've had our moment in the sun, I suspect we will now return to the Tottenham we all know and love.

 

[scaramanga]

We have been playing brick but no game is easy......

Lets try and get some confidence going in this club if that is possible..yes things need to be changed
and we do need a new confident strong skillfull defence for starters. The whole team needs changes..Lets see if this new Manager can turn us around. You can see drastic changes are desperately needed and a couple of Top signings from somewhere..We still have some great players we need to build on this. Jose said we have some good players in the squad..I hope we can get back to where we have been over recent years and play some class football.
Anyway,, Come on you Spurs............

I agree with all of that. I just don't think we need replays against nobodies in our third most important competition to do it.

 

[thfcsteff]

I hold my hand up -and apologise for bickering- with regards to tedious debates about this player and that player. I stand by my views but could’ve spared us all the long bore game.

The truth is I am genuinely down about the club right now. It is only football,and trust me I know that all to well, but I cannot escape the feeling that we have lost the magic and allure, the camaraderie and spirit everywhere at the club. It is a reminder that in life, it is so hard to build something wonderful, so easy to take it for granted, and so devastatingly easy to quickly destroy it.

When I head to next week’s game, it will be the first time in 5 seasons I will do so with the pre-match expectation that we will get thumped. A horrible admission and horrible feeling, especially for one noted as being an optimist!

Still, every player will get my support as does the manager.
COYS.

 

[billyiddo]

We just don’t have a spine.

Everyone of our CM has a considerable flaw

Wanyama - dead
Winks - injury prone
Dier - passing/returning from long period out
Sissoko - poor footballer
Dombele - injury prone and questions over his meteorology

and on top of that the CBs and GK are not at the level they once were and some may argue the same for our CF too (tho i would say he is limite by those behind him)

 

[Finney Is Back]

You have introduced this into the discussion yet I think you are overplaying it. Dele has the license to be free. He does not have the "mercurial free role"...if he did, then he would not be the one dropping in to hold deeper shape and allowing LoCelso and Lamela to push forward, he also would not drop into smart defensive shape as often as he does. I find your assertion of him genuinely fascinating. I understand that you consider yourself more tactically astute than many on this forum, which only compounds that fascination.

I think he had a free role until the point where Jose realised he was doing nothing to help our attacks, so made a double sub and dropped Dele deeper to make space for the couple of players in attacking midfield positions who might create something.

 

[Legohamster]

and on top of that the CBs and GK are not at the level they once were and some may argue the same for our CF too (tho i would say he is limite by those behind him)

I wouldn’t be shocked if he started by signing a CB and DM - then at least you have some sort of spine to build around.

I want to see how Hugo does in a no risk tactic

 

[AdamB]

I wouldn’t be shocked if he started by signing a CB and DM - then at least you have some sort of spine to build around.

I want to see how Hugo does in a no risk tactic

I think there's a pretty good chance that those positions will be his first signings (or RB), and most likely bringing in some players with some size and power given that at the moment, we look weak. Problem is that only in an optimistic scenario can you see those players arriving in January. It would be nice to see some of the deadwood and has-beens like JV leave in Jan.

We need to all brace ourselves for a depressing next 5 months and a mid-table finish in the league. If we didnt have 30 points already, I'd be genuinely worried about getting drawn into a relegation dogfight. My concern for the summer though is who the hell is going to look at spurs and think 'thats a club which I want to join....'

 

[djp82]

and on top of that the CBs and GK are not at the level they once were and some may argue the same for our CF too (tho i would say he is limite by those behind him)

This is the case. Poch had the best years out of this squad. They are all older and the energy of their youth that drove us to the performances he got out them has now gone. Add to that the monster that was Dembele holding it all together.

We are a far cry from that. Levy was lucky really with the way it all came together without a hefty out lay. Now to get back there requires some serious spend which I don’t think we can partake in or possibly choose not to.

Poch was correct a painful rebuild was indeed needed and Levy seems to think he could buck that by bringing in Jose. Sadly in my opinion that’s not going to be the case.

Is Jose going to be the man for that rebuild ? It’s a No from me. He will bodge it all up then trot off as ever with some queens heads in his back pocket.

Like Steff I’m down about the club and we are going to see 1-2 painful seasons. Question is will we get back to the heights of title challenges ? That’s up to ENIC if they want to invest the big bucks.

Personally I’d like to see us do what Cheatski have done put some trust in the better youth players because they will be the clubs future not huge salary and transfer fee players.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I hold my hand up -and apologise for bickering- with regards to tedious debates about this player and that player. I stand by my views but could’ve spared us all the long bore game.

The truth is I am genuinely down about the club right now. It is only football,and trust me I know that all to well, but I cannot escape the feeling that we have lost the magic and allure, the camaraderie and spirit everywhere at the club. It is a reminder that in life, it is so hard to build something wonderful, so easy to take it for granted, and so devastatingly easy to quickly destroy it.

When I head to next week’s game, it will be the first time in 5 seasons I will do so with the pre-match expectation that we will get thumped. A horrible admission and horrible feeling, especially for one noted as being an optimist!

Still, every player will get my support as does the manager.
COYS.

You and any one else have no need to apologise. I wasn’t making a point about bickering - we’re all free to do what we want on a discussion forum - more that regardless of the outcome of that debate, the bigger picture at hand is the thing that’s really making the difference.

I feel the same as you, completely down on the club right now, I’m going to games out of habit and supporting the team because it’s what I do, not because I feel the special connection I had to the club as little as 4 months ago. Just being honest here...I’m down on it too.

I think we’re minimum 2 years away from getting back to where we were - that feeling of being able to batter any team, the idea that we were the best or at least the most consistent side in the country over a period of a couple of years. Not that we need to be back at exactly those results, but that ‘feeling’ that we’re moving in the right direction, that everyone is pulling in the same direction, that we are a genuine match for anyone, I think that’s 2 years away at least. It’s 3 transfer windows including this one, to move out the players we need to move out, bring new ones in, and then get them settled, firing, ironing out the mistakes and building a culture and a spirit that makes us capable.

I’d love to think we get there quicker, but the surgery required is so drastic that I just don’t know how we do it. Can’t all be in one window and yet so many need a change of scenery. Happily we’re in a position to pay proper wages for the calibre of players we want now, but if we’re selling largely before we buy, it’s still gonna be a tough ask.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'll step up and defend what I think are cheap comments. I try not to throw them around. Straight debate? Fine.

I'll leave you with your Serge love-in chaps. I've said my piece and I stand by it.

I will say at least we can rely on this forum to always reach the ultimate conclusion...that it is all actually Sissoko's fault. Laughable again.

The final bold-faced line? Come on. Really? LoCelso, NDombele, Lamela, Winks, Alli, Sissoko, even Dier, and you're saying they're the problem versus not having even one decent, fit, proper left-back and a right-back who thinks he's a winger? I suppose it is a game of opinions...

I apologise if you thought it was a cheap shot. I just couldn't think of any reason why you would think we were playing a flat back four other than reading the formation from the TV screen as it is as plain as day that Vertonghen and Aurier are not playing the equivalent positions in the team.

Also are you suggesting that the main reason we didn't win today's game was Aurier?

 

[AdamB]

This is the case. Poch had the best years out of this squad. They are all older and the energy of their youth that drove us to the performances he got out them has now gone. Add to that the monster that was Dembele holding it all together.

We are a far cry from that. Levy was lucky really with the way it all came together without a hefty out lay. Now to get back there requires some serious spend which I don’t think we can partake in or possibly choose not to.

Poch was correct a painful rebuild was indeed needed and Levy seems to think he could buck that by bringing in Jose. Sadly in my opinion that’s not going to be the case.

Is Jose going to be the man for that rebuild ? It’s a No from me. He will bodge it all up then trot off as ever with some queens heads in his back pocket.

Like Steff I’m down about the club and we are going to see 1-2 painful seasons. Question is will we get back to the heights of title challenges ? That’s up to ENIC if they want to invest the big bucks.

Personally I’d like to see us do what Cheatski have done put some trust in the better youth players because they will be the clubs future not huge salary and transfer fee players.

I'm 100% with you on most of that, apart from the Mouringho comment. He's the guy appointed and he needs to be backed, including by the supporters

We do need a huge rebuild though and should start in January given the amount of work needed to be done and given that, with 30 points already, we shouldnt go down.

Half the squad are worth keeping (Kane, Son, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Son, maybe Dele, Davies (squad player), Foyth (given his age), Sanchez (given his age) etc)) but there's a massive rebuild needed apart from that, in particular with the core of a team, namely 2 CBs and a DM.

I'd like to see us just make a statement in January that we're moving in that direction - say, release Jan V and sign a CB, as well as trying to offload Wanyama and KWP. Getting rid of on of the stalwarts of the Poch-era will show that that team is finished mentally and physically and that we're moving on

 

[BrainOfLevy]

This is the case. Poch had the best years out of this squad. They are all older and the energy of their youth that drove us to the performances he got out them has now gone. Add to that the monster that was Dembele holding it all together.

We are a far cry from that. Levy was lucky really with the way it all came together without a hefty out lay. Now to get back there requires some serious spend which I don’t think we can partake in or possibly choose not to.

Poch was correct a painful rebuild was indeed needed and Levy seems to think he could buck that by bringing in Jose. Sadly in my opinion that’s not going to be the case.

Is Jose going to be the man for that rebuild ? It’s a No from me. He will bodge it all up then trot off as ever with some queens heads in his back pocket.

Like Steff I’m down about the club and we are going to see 1-2 painful seasons. Question is will we get back to the heights of title challenges ? That’s up to ENIC if they want to invest the big bucks.

Personally I’d like to see us do what Cheatski have done put some trust in the better youth players because they will be the clubs future not huge salary and transfer fee players.

It’s understandable that getting so much out of players both from physical exertion but also from the mental demands (the loyalty, the intense connection with your teammates being your best mates too) meant that the burn out was going to come. And it’s both mental and physical. I really do think we’ve tried to get as much as we can out of this squad, to put off rebuilding for as long as possible in order to not spend the money we are going to ultimately have to spend. I can’t think of another club that has largely kept so many of the same players together after its peak and not seen a considerable drop off...even City after Pellegrini’s title win finished 4th and then 3rd after rebuilding with Pep and a whole new team.

If there was really no money, fine, I won’t blame anyone. But if it was a matter of taking a little bit of a hit on certain players (and not putting silly price tags on players like Eriksen) then I fully blame Levy. And I say that as a massive ENIC defender. The intangible benefits of shifting players earlier and getting ones in that have that youth and energy and allow us to play our game the way we know how, it will have been worth more than the few quid saved. Just in the same way that the spirit, togetherness and youthful energy of the first Poch side enabled us to out perform our bank balance.

Feels like we’ve done all of this, made this move and the only tangible benefit so far has been Toby’s contract.

 

[djp82]

I'm 400% with you on most of that, apart from the Mouringho comment. He's the guy appointed and he needs to be backed, including by the supporters

We do need a huge rebuild though and should start in January given the amount of work needed to be done and given that, with 30 points already, we shouldnt go down.

Half the squad are worth keeping (Kane, Son, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Son, maybe Dele, Davies (squad player), Foyth (given his age), Sanchez (given his age) etc)) but there's a massive rebuild needed apart from that, in particular with the core of a team, namely 2 CBs and a DM.

I'd like to see us just make a statement in January that we're moving in that direction - say, release Jan V and sign a CB, as well as trying to offload Wanyama and KWP. Getting rid of on of the stalwarts of the Poch-era will show that that team is finished mentally and physically and that we're moving on

The club have hired him so indeed need to back him. With the state of transfer fees now will be huge amounts required to rebuild the squad as so much is needed.

We’ve smashed transfer records and for me the players look well short of their fees. Not just us other clubs to. Ndombele and Pepe for example 70+ million for raw players who don’t look close to finished articles. So my point being do we splash mad cash or employ youth .

It’s a tough one really. We must have a gem or two at youth level. Liverpool’s kids impressed again tonight.

 

[billyiddo]

It’s understandable that getting so much out of players both from physical exertion but also from the mental demands (the loyalty, the intense connection with your teammates being your best mates too) meant that the burn out was going to come. And it’s both mental and physical. I really do think we’ve tried to get as much as we can out of this squad, to put off rebuilding for as long as possible in order to not spend the money we are going to ultimately have to spend. I can’t think of another club that has largely kept so many of the same players together after its peak and not seen a considerable drop off...even City after Pellegrini’s title win finished 4th and then 3rd after rebuilding with Pep and a whole new team.

If there was really no money, fine, I won’t blame anyone. But if it was a matter of taking a little bit of a hit on certain players (and not putting silly price tags on players like Eriksen) then I fully blame Levy. And I say that as a massive ENIC defender. The intangible benefits of shifting players earlier and getting ones in that have that youth and energy and allow us to play our game the way we know how, it will have been worth more than the few quid saved. Just in the same way that the spirit, togetherness and youthful energy of the first Poch side enabled us to out perform our bank balance.

Feels like we’ve done all of this, made this move and the only tangible benefit so far has been Toby’s contract.

Remains to be seen whether that is even a benefit

 

[AdamB]

We’ve smashed transfer records and for me the players look well short of their fees. Not just us other clubs to. Ndombele and Pepe for example 70+ million for raw players who don’t look close to finished articles. So my point being do we splash mad cash or employ youth .

I'm not sure our policy will change. Levy realistically wont ever sign a 28 year old at his peak for £80m given the lack of re-sale value in 4-5 years time.

Our core signing profile will be 22-24 years old with a handful of international caps, and then supplemented by the odd Sessegnon/Clarke c.18 year old. The problem is that the failure rate with that policy is higher, and ours in the recent past has been even higher given our inability to pay reasonable fees (hence the likes of Janssen, NJie etc arriving).

I think that policy is fine, and Lo Celso and Ndombele and the sort of profile player I expect us to focus on - we just need to catch-up with failures of recent windows, starting by bringing in say 3-4 players like that over the course of January and the summer window.

 

[djp82]

I'm not sure our policy will change. Levy realistically wont ever sign a 28 year old at his peak for £80m given the lack of re-sale value in 4-5 years time.

Our core signing profile will be 22-24 years old with a handful of international caps, and then supplemented by the odd Sessegnon/Clarke c.18 year old. The problem is that the failure rate with that policy is higher, and ours in the recent past has been even higher given our inability to pay reasonable fees (hence the likes of Janssen, NJie etc arriving).

I think that policy is fine, and Lo Celso and Ndombele and the sort of profile player I expect us to focus on - we just need to catch-up with failures of recent windows, starting by bringing in say 3-4 players like that over the course of January and the summer window.

Well let’s hope our scouts are out there putting in the time to seek out these types. Also that Levy does not play silly buggers because this is a critical point for us to try continue on upward trend.

 

[We are Tottenham]

I agree with all of that. I just don't think we need replays against nobodies in our third most important competition to do it.

I agree with you,replays are a pain especially as things are now with how we are strugling but a draw and I say with caution, maybe better than an exit.
Only time will tell...lol

 

[We are Tottenham]

This is the case. Poch had the best years out of this squad. They are all older and the energy of their youth that drove us to the performances he got out them has now gone. Add to that the monster that was Dembele holding it all together.

We are a far cry from that. Levy was lucky really with the way it all came together without a hefty out lay. Now to get back there requires some serious spend which I don’t think we can partake in or possibly choose not to.

Poch was correct a painful rebuild was indeed needed and Levy seems to think he could buck that by bringing in Jose. Sadly in my opinion that’s not going to be the case.

Is Jose going to be the man for that rebuild ? It’s a No from me. He will bodge it all up then trot off as ever with some queens heads in his back pocket.

Like Steff I’m down about the club and we are going to see 1-2 painful seasons. Question is will we get back to the heights of title challenges ? That’s up to ENIC if they want to invest the big bucks.

Personally I’d like to see us do what Cheatski have done put some trust in the better youth players because they will be the clubs future not huge salary and transfer fee players.

Liverpool had their youngsters playing today for an Important game..are ours not up to the job!?
Were not giving them a run out are we ...I agree.

 

[glasgowspur]

Liverpool had their youngsters playing today for an Important game..are ours not up to the job!?
Were not giving them a run out are we ...I agree.

We tried it against Colchester, didn't work to well.