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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

My Rabi mate says "they are not called the tribe for nothing!"
My old neighbours were Jewish from New York and disliked Israel with a passion and very wealthy city bankers.
My great grandmother was Jewish and my Son says he can see that as "I'm very careful with my spending". Who'd have known it?
 
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Boris Johnson celebrated his election victory at the home of a Russian oligarch who happens to be the son of a former KGB agent. I wonder what they have on him. He's bound to have plenty of dirt he'd rather keep secret.

Where's the Russian interference report?
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
No, Momentum hate people who manipulate our economy for their own selfish ends, as does any self respecting democratic socialist. You're simply conflating the two things. Labour hate capitalists, Jews are capitalist, therefore Labour hate Jews. What? How intellectually inflexible is that? I'm amazed that you trotted that simplistic guff out. Surely you are capable of better than that? Of course you don't believe it anymore than Murdoch does, but it was a convenient smear with which to undermine a Labour leader who meant business. Socialism was the problem for you, not anti Semitism.
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Who is calling the Tories fascist? Not me. There are some of that persuastion in there and always have been, but the prevailing ideology in there is neo liberal. As for shouting down people, that should read one person...just you... just you. As I have said previously my grandfather opposed your ilk between 1940 and 1945 as a professional in the British army. He had no truck with your sort either. I always ponder what attracts people to far right ideology.Which one are you? The bed wetter, the one bullied at school, the low academic achiever, an inability to form relationships with women, or all of the above?
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There, there, there, you feeling better now? lol

I'm all for freedom of speech and have never been for shouting anyone down.....

So...

Genuine question to you .... Labour keep losing and by the time the next election comes round in 2025, Labour will have been in power for just thirteen years since Thatcher's win in 1979...That's thirteen out of the forty-six years ..Why do you think that is and how do you think the Labour Party can do better?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Then it is a terrible place, there are no "but" moments in the conversation. You can either be openly gay and have no hassle for it or you can't, if you can't then there are serious problems.

Very much like Saudi
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Hmmm seems like you just want to prove me wrong rather than have any knowledge about this? Have you been Russia, are you gay?

I don't know a lot, but I know Russia is nothing like Saudi Arabia. Do your research. A quick google search would tell you that homosexuality was decriminalised in Russia in 1993. In Saudi peolpe are sentenced for actually being gay.

The UK decriminalised homosexuality in 1967. Would you say the UK was also a "terrible place" in the early 60s or 70s when traditional conservative attitudes hadn't caught up?
 
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wiziwig said:
There, there, there, you feeling better now? lol

I'm all for freedom of speech and have never been for shouting anyone down.....

So...

Genuine question to you .... Labour keep losing and by the time the next election comes round in 2025, Labour will have been in power for just thirteen years since Thatcher's win in 1979...That's thirteen out of the forty-six years ..Why do you think that is and how do you think the Labour Party can do better?
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Too many people who should be voting Labour are simply not voting. They feel dis empowered by politics and my guess would be that Blair's government has a lot to answer for in this respect. Labour are on the right track with regard to this by disavowing the Tweedle Dum, Tweedle Dee approach to politics. Under Corbyn we have seen Labour set up real points
scaramanga said:
Tl:dr = Labour is institutionally anti-semitic.
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of difference, but what is needed is a clean skin and charismatic leader.
 
scaramanga said:
Tl:dr = Labour is institutionally anti-semitic.
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A document loaded with accusations. Many, but not all made by people with an axe to grind. How much of it is proven? Let's make an inquiry into Tory racism and see what that turns up? It's called going on a fishing expedition and is the oldest trick in the play book. if one did find systematic Tory racism, just how press coverage would it get? I can answer that one for you. Zero, none, ziltch. because it doesn't suit the political aims of the economic elite of this country. Johnson has openly made racist comments, something by the way Corbyn has never done. Yet Corbyn has been the one vilified. Says it all really. Next!
 
Under Corbyn Labour have been popular with children but unelectable.

As close to actual power as the greens or lib dems.

And they have even managed to disenfranchise their most loyal supporters/constituencies.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/13/stunning-tory-seat-victories-2019-general-election/

24 safe Labour seats lost to Boris - of all people.

Its nought to do with people who should vote not voting. Its nought to do with Brexit.

The Labour party is in crisis, THANKS TO CORBYN and momentum.

Until they stop being in denial about it, they wont stand any more chance of success.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Hmmm seems like you just want to prove me wrong rather than have any knowledge about this? Have you been Russia, are you gay?

I don't know a lot, but I know Russia is nothing like Saudi Arabia. Do your research. A quick google search would tell you that homosexuality was decriminalised in Russia in 1993. In Saudi peolpe are sentenced for actually being gay.

The UK decriminalised homosexuality in 1967. Would you say the UK was also a "terrible place" in the early 60s or 70s when traditional conservative attitudes hadn't caught up?
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I have been to Russia alot for work, been every year from the last 8 for MIT which is a major travel show. Now the travel industry in the UK has a very large gay community so I would say I was in a relatively decent position to say what I said.

I say like Saudi not the same as, and when I said that I meant very much that my views towards the two are similar in that I do not like their stance on homosexuality.

Your bench marks are rather strange because you are using the decriminalisation dates to give them some kind of excuse, the fact is its 2019 the world over regardless so I would say they are massively behind the world and that would include on decriminalising in 1993.

I find it extremely odd that in this day and age any form of homophobia should be excused, thats nothing to do with me trying to make you look wrong, thats just in my mind a relatively normal POV.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Under Corbyn Labour have been popular with children but unelectable.

As close to actual power as the greens or lib dems.

And they have even managed to disenfranchise their most loyal supporters/constituencies.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/13/stunning-tory-seat-victories-2019-general-election/

24 safe Labour seats lost to Boris - of all people.

Its nought to do with people who should vote not voting. Its nought to do with Brexit.

The Labour party is in crisis, THANKS TO CORBYN and momentum.

Until they stop being in denial about it, they wont stand any more chance of success.
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People said that the tories were irrelevant during the Blair years, they said that they were a spent force too. All hubris. Let's hope that this continues. The Labour Party will still be around well after we are all dead and buried. It has survived worse shocks than this.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
A document loaded with accusations. Many, but not all made by people with an axe to grind. How much of it is proven? Let's make an inquiry into Tory racism and see what that turns up? It's called going on a fishing expedition and is the oldest trick in the play book. if one did find systematic Tory racism, just how press coverage would it get? I can answer that one for you. Zero, none, ziltch. because it doesn't suit the political aims of the economic elite of this country. Johnson has openly made racist comments, something by the way Corbyn has never done. Yet Corbyn has been the one vilified. Says it all really. Next!
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Conspiracy nonsense.

If an investigation was raised about systemic racism in the Tory party you can be damn sure it would get attention.

If it was raised by Tory members, you can be damn sure thats front page news. And you should really stop to consider its validity, considering its people going against their own.

Labour is no different. Despite your excuses and denial. There is clearly a problem there.

Has it been used by some for their benefit? Of course.

Does that mean theres nothing to it? Of course not, grow up.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
People said that the tories were irrelevant during the Blair years, they said that they were a spent force too. All hubris. Let's hope that this continues. The Labour Party will still be around well after we are all dead and buried. It has survived worse shocks than this.
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Theres a difference between surviving and being at the table or in any way relevant.

If Labour continue as they are they will be replaced, and fondly remembered by certain unstable types - but little more than a memory.

If there is one shift in politics Im in favour of, its kicking out sentimentality.

People are voting Conservative that I have no doubt have previously vowed they never would.

That means they are actually paying attention, and not just blindly following their team.

This can only be good. We need more of it.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Conspiracy nonsense.

If an investigation was raised about systemic racism in the Tory party you can be damn sure it would get attention.

If it was raised by Tory members, you can be damn sure thats front page news. And you should really stop to consider its validity, considering its people going against their own.

Labour is no different. Despite your excuses and denial. There is clearly a problem there.

Has it been used by some for their benefit? Of course.

Does that mean theres nothing to it? Of course not, grow up.
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Clearly you have comprehension issues. If you read what I said, in the above post, i wrote that not all the accusations were politically motivated. Over 500,000 million member and 500 odd accustions, none proven. Are there some cranks in Labour, of ccourse there are, but conflating that with a crisis is just partisan bull brick.
 
"if one did find systematic Tory racism, just how press coverage would it get? I can answer that one for you. Zero, none, ziltch. because it doesn't suit the political aims of the economic elite "

Yep. No sign of crank there at all. All perfectly reasonable...


Labour is in crisis. Deny it all you like, doesnt change things. The anti semitism is but part of it.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I have been to Russia alot for work, been every year from the last 8 for MIT which is a major travel show. Now the travel industry in the UK has a very large gay community so I would say I was in a relatively decent position to say what I said.

I say like Saudi not the same as, and when I said that I meant very much that my views towards the two are similar in that I do not like their stance on homosexuality.

Your bench marks are rather strange because you are using the decriminalisation dates to give them some kind of excuse, the fact is its 2019 the world over regardless so I would say they are massively behind the world and that would include on decriminalising in 1993.

I find it extremely odd that in this day and age any form of homophobia should be excused, thats nothing to do with me trying to make you look wrong, thats just in my mind a relatively normal POV.
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Presumably in Moscow? What's your experience of the city? Is it in the summer?
 
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