Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Parklaner81]

Don't be fooled by the noisy minority , the majority of Scots have no interest in independence.
Even fewer will when they realise that if the UK leaves the EU and Scotland "wins" independence there will be a hard border with England.
And that's just one of the many things the SNP doesn't want to talk about.

I wonder if this is part of Johnson's thinking - hold out on indyref2 until the brexit smoke begins to clear, and such issues become front & centre of the debate?

 

[Parklaner81]

Labour are useless...who's gonna replace Corbyn .?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jess Phillips strongly in the reckoning. She strikes me as being closer to the centre than Corbyn, but still very much a 'grievance' politician - albeit one that could probably make that message resonate with a wider spectrum than Jezza managed. Which would seem like a 'sensible' compromise - from Labour's point of view - between the centrists and the far left...not that I imagine McDonnell & the crew will actually have compromise on their minds for one minute.

So who knows.

 

[glasgowspur]

I wonder if this is part of Johnson's thinking - hold out on indyref2 until the brexit smoke begins to clear, and such issues become front & centre of the debate?

I think you're right, it's only down here on in for the SNP, they have huge internal issues that are being ignored and they are in a rush for a vote before it all unravels.
The bloodbath from the salmond Court case will be interesting. Assuming its not glossed over, the SNP refuse FOI requests on anything even slightly damaging, so hopefully this will burst a lot these wide open.

 

[scaramanga]

Quite sad for the Russian people. If they reinvested all the oil and mining money, it would prosper. They have a great foundation from communism - solid health care and excellent education. Even if it has wanned slightly now, the people are highly educated and everyone has the chance to go to Uni. The cities are awesome in the summer. Totally under the radar. Moscow is one of the most underrated cities. Tonnes of culture. Parks. Outdoor fun - music and ballroom dancing outside. Its a thing there. Don't see it here. Open-air cinemas. Live music. Dance music. And it's affordable. Far cheaper than most European cities. But, again the winters are tough. St Petersburg is also interesting. More laid back, more of an alternative scene. Very picturesque in the old part. Was there during the world cup, and my company works with Russian programmers.

There is also more potential in Russia than say Sweden. Things are not all established and developed.

What's it like if a guy wants to take his boyfriend?

 

[SpurMeUp]

What's it like if a guy wants to take his boyfriend?

I’m sure you’ll be fine.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[scaramanga]

I’m sure you’ll be fine.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

I'm struggling to work out the point you're making with that comment.

Either you think I'm not gay and that it is somehow something worthy of ridicule, or you think I am and you're being serious. If it's the latter then I can categorically tell you that's not the case, as a close friend of mine went to Moscow with his boyfriend and suffered all kinds of abuse for it.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I'm struggling to work out the point you're making with that comment.

Either you think I'm not gay and that it is somehow something worthy of ridicule, or you think I am and you're being serious. If it's the latter then I can categorically tell you that's not the case, as a close friend of mine went to Moscow with his boyfriend and suffered all kinds of abuse for it.

Sorry to hear about your..."friend"

Being openly gay is not the done thing in Russia. But there is a strong gay scene. Despite the homophobic rhetoric (Russian popularism?) those in power don't really have any issues with gay people. After being macho and condemning gays, they all trot off to the ballet...

 

[scaramanga]

Sorry to hear about your..."friend"

Being openly gay is not the done thing in Russia. But there is a strong gay scene. Despite the homophobic rhetoric (Russian popularism?) those in power don't really have any issues with gay people. After being macho and condemning gays, they all trot off to the ballet...

Is there something gay about the ballet? I'm not sure if I'm just missing some sarcasm here or something.

And you can't brush it off with being openly gay not being the done thing - that is institutionalised homophobia. It's absolutely unacceptable

 

[SpurMeUp]

Is there something gay about the ballet?

Really!? When was the last time you were at the ballet?

And you can't brush it off with being openly gay not being the done thing - that is institutionalised homophobia. It's absolutely unacceptable

What is "it"? I'm not defending the Russian state. Of course homophobia it's wrong. Yet Russia has a thriving gay scene, it's probably more open than in many other nations.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Really!? When was the last time you were at the ballet?



What is "it"? I'm not defending the Russian state. Of course homophobia it's wrong. Yet Russia has a thriving gay scene, it's probably more open than in many other nations.

Them ballet guys are actually very strong.

Russia absolutely discriminates against both gay people and also Muslims.

Gets my goat when people say were racist in this country when you look at other countries i feel we are probably the most tolerant in the world, maybe only Germany are more tolerant.

 

[monkeybarry]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jess Phillips strongly in the reckoning. She strikes me as being closer to the centre than Corbyn, but still very much a 'grievance' politician - albeit one that could probably make that message resonate with a wider spectrum than Jezza managed. Which would seem like a 'sensible' compromise - from Labour's point of view - between the centrists and the far left...not that I imagine McDonnell & the crew will actually have compromise on their minds for one minute.

So who knows.

I think Jess Phillips will be a moderate shadow cabinet position at best. They need her in the Dennis Skinner type role - to be mouthy and moral. She'd be wasted as leader.

 

[P.D.]

Labour are useless...who's gonna replace Corbyn .? Anyone taking the job will probably need at least two elections, that's 10 years...


Starmer would be the sensible one but they will probably go with Rebecca Long-Bailey but there's only one that can save them...

Starmer is a large reason they lost the election, he was one of the chief architects of going for a 2nd referendum and trying to make the party campaign for remain. There were some massive arguments in the shadow cabinet between him and Trickett/Lavery.

I'd say the last people they should go for would be more centrists from London like Starmer and Thornberry (how long would it be till her Rochester tweet made the papers again if she went for it).

 

[scaramanga]

Starmer is a large reason they lost the election, he was one of the chief architects of going for a 2nd referendum and trying to make the party campaign for remain. There were some massive arguments in the shadow cabinet between him and Trickett/Lavery.

I'd say the last people they should go for would be more centrists from London like Starmer and Thornberry (how long would it be till her Rochester tweet made the papers again if she went for it).

If they don't move the to the centre they're done as a party for decades, possibly permanently.

 

[wiziwig]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Jess Phillips strongly in the reckoning. She strikes me as being closer to the centre than Corbyn, but still very much a 'grievance' politician - albeit one that could probably make that message resonate with a wider spectrum than Jezza managed. Which would seem like a 'sensible' compromise - from Labour's point of view - between the centrists and the far left...not that I imagine McDonnell & the crew will actually have compromise on their minds for one minute.

So who knows.

Your last sentence would maybe suggest Rebecca Long-Bailey most likely.

I can't take the nagging misandrist Jess Philips seriously and to my mind she would be another disaster..

They're an awful bunch, a shambles ..

 

[wiziwig]

Starmer is a large reason they lost the election, he was one of the chief architects of going for a 2nd referendum and trying to make the party campaign for remain. There were some massive arguments in the shadow cabinet between him and Trickett/Lavery.

I'd say the last people they should go for would be more centrists from London like Starmer and Thornberry (how long would it be till her Rochester tweet made the papers again if she went for it).

A friend told me the same thing over the weekend regarding Starmer - the London Clique and his 2nd referendum stance. I also caught up with the Caroline Flint Sky News interview where she also said much the same.

Actually, it's a shame Flint lost her seat as, perhaps she would've been the unifier they'd be looking for.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I hope McDonnell goes as well as Corbyn, I cant help feeling him hanging around with any seniority would be a terrible thing for any incoming leadership (and the party/direction in general)

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

That appears to be a common accusation from the more tribal end of politics but I haven't seen any evidence to show that.

It would take something huge for anyone to honestly suggest the Conservatives are guilty of anything on the scale of Labour's (especially Momentum's) antisemitism. Part of the Labour Party itself just published a 53 page explanation of why there is so much institutionalised prejudice in the party. To ignore it is to simply will one's side to win with no regard whatsoever for the safety and security of those it attacks based on their race.

But that's not what the evidence shows and you know it. What there almost certainly is (as will always be the case in large groups of old, white men) are a few individuals who are misogynistic homophobes, etc. That's not acceptable and they shouldn't be in the party, but that does not bear any kind of equivalence to institutionalised racism extending from the leader of the party down to its grass roots.

The elephant in the room for the smearers is that there is no ideological reason for anyone in Labour to be anti Semitic. But oh what is this I see, oh yes any criticism of Israel is being labelled as anti antisemitism. I think that modern day Israel is a border line fascist state (yeah I know, ironic isn't it) but me saying that does make make me an anti Semite, to suggest such is ridiculous. I oppose fascism everywhere it raises it's ugly head, as most do on the left. The right, (Pinochet and Thatcher) (conservatives in the 30's flirting with Hitler), not so much.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Well, despite the most evil austerity ever inflicted on a people in the history of mankind, that's now FOUR defeats in a row to the 'Faaaaasciiiiist Tories' with the latest, being a damn good thrashing.

This 'clown' has been warning lefties such as yourself for the past 20 years and more of the consequences of Labour fudging over the white working class.. Labour lost Scotland and now, apart from certain areas in the cities, they've also lost Wales, the Midlands and the North of England...

The Red Wall smashed by the Tories!!

The white working classes have realised that Labour have not only abandoned them, but were now also attacking them! .... They are punishing Labour rather than endorsing the Conservatives...

Lefties such as you will never get it and will always lose as you prefer to shout down people with a differing viewpoint rather than seek a consensus...It's not really in the psychology of the Lefties to self reflect..

Bravo, well done, well played to the likes of you!

Who is calling the Tories fascist? Not me. There are some of that persuastion in there and always have been, but the prevailing ideology in there is neo liberal. As for shouting down people, that should read one person...just you... just you. As I have said previously my grandfather opposed your ilk between 1940 and 1945 as a professional in the British army. He had no truck with your sort either. I always ponder what attracts people to far right ideology.Which one are you? The bed wetter, the one bullied at school, the low academic achiever, an inability to form relationships with women, or all of the above?

 

[scaramanga]

The elephant in the room for the smearers is that there is no ideological reason for anyone in Labour to be anti Semitic. But oh what is this I see, oh yes any criticism of Israel is being labelled as anti antisemitism. I think that modern day Israel is a border line fascist state (yeah I know, ironic isn't it) but me saying that does make make me an anti Semite, to suggest such is ridiculous. I oppose fascism everywhere it raises it's ugly head, as most do on the left. The right, (Pinochet and Thatcher) (conservatives in the 30's flirting with Hitler), not so much.

It's a long-standing trope (false, but still firmly believed by many) that Jews have all the money and power in this world. Momentum hate people with money and power, ergo Momentum hate Jews.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It's a long-standing trope (false, but still firmly believed by many) that Jews have all the money and power in this world. Momentum hate people with money and power, ergo Momentum hate Jews.

No, Momentum hate people who manipulate our economy for their own selfish ends, as does any self respecting democratic socialist. You're simply conflating the two things. Labour hate capitalists, Jews are capitalist, therefore Labour hate Jews. What? How intellectually inflexible is that? I'm amazed that you trotted that simplistic guff out. Surely you are capable of better than that? Of course you don't believe it anymore than Murdoch does, but it was a convenient smear with which to undermine a Labour leader who meant business. Socialism was the problem for you, not anti Semitism.