Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[MKSpur]

But would be 14th if Toby and eriksen played to their potential?

I’m talking about Toby and to be honest I’m not sure van dijk could carry out back 4 with the added challenge of winks and sissoko being their shield.

I don’t think Toby is not trying so he’s either brick and we are lucky to be rid or he’s good and he’s exercised his right to see out his contract. Eriksen is a different kettle of fish on my opinion

 

[MKSpur]

but he is a massive part of that state

I disagree mate , if I had a list of players i would upgrade on there’d be quite a few above him.

He’s intentions have been clear for a while, Eriksen is sulking because he didn’t get his move and has shown that he doesn’t have the mentality to play his best when there are contract issues in the background.

I don’t get what is going with Jan at all though, all he’s ever said is he wants to sign...

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't think this has anything to do with Poch. I think the players are, in a coordinated fashion, trying to say 'up-yours' to Levy for underpaying them by 40% during a short career. You gotta realise that for Eriksen, Toby, Rose, they don't wake up every morning and go to the amazing Spurs, they go to work. And having been underpaid for a while at work, I understand slacking off a bit and trying to make sure that the balance is repaid. It's not my manager's fault when that happens; I just outgrew the position. Same thing happened here. It's not Levy's fault either - he needed to get us over the stadium bump - but something had to get stretched then.

Needs a clearout and start again now - it's annoying, because our team was sweet. This feels like when we sold Bale though (another flimflam time). Then look what happened. We got stronger, better, and achieved more than we ever had before.

We need to hold the faith. We need to tolerate the distress that we currently feel. If we don't, we'll do something stupid and impulsive (like sacking poch) and have to deal with the longer term negative outcomes of that in future rather than just waiting until the summer and buying some hot new players and getting rid of the old decrepit husks we have now.

On the fudging money mate!

 

[thfcsteff]

Under paid... surely if they were under paid then people would have come in for them and unsettled them earlier

I think Ben was making a general point that there was a moment where due to the project at hand and our “over achievement” they were underpaid. I tend to agree with both this view and yours; it is an unfortunate mess. I believe they didn’t quite do enough over the course of time, and I believe Poch has learnt/is learning what it will take when our empire strikes back!

 

[thfcsteff]

they have to earn it too

their not being under paid

maybe some others are being over paid

you can’t argue I want parity with VVD... he has just won the CL, the European player of the season and has dragged his team form also rans to title certs... what have you done Toby? I’ve got a new tattoo and slick slick hair

Who is eriksens peer? Arguably de Bruyne who is comfortably better and turns up when it matters

I agree with these details. I wanted Toby out 18 months ago precisely because of that.

 

[thfcsteff]

Surely you can see the players that want to leave argument is nonsense by now.
Neither of these started against Sheffield United and we were outplayed and outthought by a team of Championship players from last season.

The players are sick of Poch. Poch keeps changing the formation and players every game in some blind panic.

Are you really suggesting that having four contract rebels would not be a distraction for the group? Please.

 

[benp]

you're not arguing from the right perspective. how many of our players honestly believe that VVD deserves more than they do? What's eriksen on, 70k a week? Each time he looks at his paycheck he's going to curse. And each time he plays he's screwed too - either he gets injured (welcome to nothing city, population: you) or his value and potential wages go down too. it's the same for all the wantaways. so you end up with a team full of people who wants the glory moment and won't put in the hard yards or take personal risk. no risky balls to kane because your agent can use your pass completed percentage or pressure resist stats for an extra 5k a week.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I disagree mate , if I had a list of players i would upgrade on there’d be quite a few above him.

He’s intentions have been clear for a while, Eriksen is sulking because he didn’t get his move and has shown that he doesn’t have the meteorology to play his best when there are contract issues in the background.

I don’t get what is going with Jan at all though, all he’s ever said is he wants to sign...

Toby gets away with so much as it’s Toby

IMO he hasn’t been of a quality that merits the “excuses” for 18 months now

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think Ben was making a general point that there was a moment where due to the project at hand and our “over achievement” they were underpaid. I tend to agree with both this view and yours; it is an unfortunate mess. I believe they didn’t quite do enough over the course of time, and I believe Poch has learnt/is learning what it will take when our empire strikes back!

We are notorious for paying an incentive based pay
They perform and get results they get more money
I think the report focus on the base pay rather than what we actually pay the players

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Half the squad look disinterested.

Even the ones you would think would fight more.

Toby’s been one of our better defenders by the way.

The bar is low but he has had two top top games and a some shockers
Plus mainly very average to low ones IMo
The fact we have a shocking record for cleans sheets says a lot

 

[glasgowspur]

you're not arguing from the right perspective. how many of our players honestly believe that VVD deserves more than they do? What's eriksen on, 70k a week? Each time he looks at his paycheck he's going to curse. And each time he plays he's screwed too - either he gets injured (welcome to nothing city, population: you) or his value and potential wages go down too. it's the same for all the wantaways. so you end up with a team full of people who wants the glory moment and won't put in the hard yards or take personal risk. no risky balls to kane because your agent can use your pass completed percentage or pressure resist stats for an extra 5k a week.

Eriksen has been repeatedly given the chance to increase his wage and refused it.
If he's unhappy with his current contract, one he quite gladly signed, then that's on him, not us.

 

[glasgowspur]

I’m talking about Toby and to be honest I’m not sure van dijk could carry out back 4 with the added challenge of winks and sissoko being their shield.

I don’t think Toby is not trying so he’s either brick and we are lucky to be rid or he’s good and he’s exercised his right to see out his contract. Eriksen is a different kettle of fish on my opinion

I agree on the winks/Sissoko point, we've never recovered from losing Wanyama.

 

[MKSpur]

Toby gets away with so much as it’s Toby

IMO he hasn’t been of a quality that merits the “excuses” for 18 months now

If that’s the case you should be pleased he was ‘naive’ enough to sign a new deal with us and creamed off even higher wages for a longer term commitment. My original comment was that his decision might not be motivated solely by money.
He’s not been at the standards he set pre hammy, individually I still think he’s better than Sanchez and Foyth and his regression is amplified by the fact we don’t have one defender the other recent top 6 clubs would want to take from us other than maybe Jan

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If that’s the case you should be pleased he was ‘naive’ enough to sign a new deal with us and creamed off even higher wages for a longer term commitment. My original comment was that his decision might not be motivated solely by money.
He’s not been at the standards he set pre hammy, individually I still think he’s better than Sanchez and Foyth and his regression is amplified by the fact we don’t have one defender the other recent top 6 clubs would want to take from us other than maybe Jan

Maybe that’s the case
I am pleased he didn’t sign
As I said earlier, for me the service we have had from him has even great value. Good luck to him stepping down a league to enjoy himself. He will go back to Ajax and be a legend

 

[thfcsteff]

you're not arguing from the right perspective. how many of our players honestly believe that VVD deserves more than they do? What's eriksen on, 70k a week? Each time he looks at his paycheck he's going to curse. And each time he plays he's screwed too - either he gets injured (welcome to nothing city, population: you) or his value and potential wages go down too. it's the same for all the wantaways. so you end up with a team full of people who wants the glory moment and won't put in the hard yards or take personal risk. no risky balls to kane because your agent can use your pass completed percentage or pressure resist stats for an extra 5k a week.

Absolutely.
For me, his was very poorly advised last season and now is reaping the "reward" for it. I have actually seen him hiding in plain sight this season, which is awful, and it is precisely what you say, unchallenging, safe passes combined with lots of movement and "completions"...I remain unable to get over his CL Final performance. I know there are many who didn't quite show up, but he was the one harping on about wanting massive money and Barca or RM. I expected him to show everyone; instead he ambled insipidly through the game (to my memory). I looked for him to grab it by the scruff and make it his, he has the ability. Sadly he didn't have it in him after all, and as unreasonable as it is, I cannot help it, I see him as a figurehead for all that is rotten right now.

 

[thfcsteff]

We are notorious for paying an incentive based pay
They perform and get results they get more money
I think the report focus on the base pay rather than what we actually pay the players

I am fully aware of that Bedford, indeed, you'll have seen me make that generous bonus scheme point repeatedly over the last few seasons. I personally applaud it; I think earnings beyond a certain level should be performance based. However it is also the reality that if we continue to operate like that, we will end up in these situations.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I am fully aware of that Bedford, indeed, you'll have seen me make that generous bonus scheme point repeatedly over the last few seasons. I personally applaud it; I think earnings beyond a certain level should be performance based. However it is also the reality that if we continue to operate like that, we will end up in these situations.

What with a player we brought cheaply wanting to leave but no one who he wants to go to actually wanting to buy him?

We can’t make a club buy someone. Similarly we can’t make a a player sign a contract. It’s clear that NO ONE wants to buy eriksen so anyone interested is waiting for him to be on a free transfer. It’s gonna happen more and more now with plenty of players and has been happening overseas more than here

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Are you really suggesting that having four contract rebels would not be a distraction for the group? Please.

At the risk of invoking groundhog day, that really is a management thing.

Lets assume the four contract rebels are a distraction for the group. The choice becomes:

1) Keep playing them, letting them effect the others, try to get them into form or to perform.
2) Bin them off, away from the group, focus on the players who have commitment, build a new core to grow with.

Regardless of the ill intent of these players, regardless of if you blame the board for that state, or for them being there - this is very much within the managers wheelhouse to deal with.

There isnt an excuse for those players to be distracting the group.

 

[Raziel]

Why are we taking out a season when doing an average?

Because it could be considered an outlier (an abnormality), not actually unusual when looking at data.

A few people have said it's league position, I'm not sure I agree, there has been a lot of odd years for some of our competitors and we were simply more consistent.

Before everyone jumps on me, I'm not making any specific case re the data just answering your question.

2 points does make me think however, it should most people.

 

[Robspur12]

Because it could be considered an outlier (an abnormality), not actually unusual when looking at data.

There are only 5 data points! Remove 1 and that is ignoring 20% of the data. There is no valid reason to ignore it either. It is a ridiculously obvious way of biasing stats to make a point stronger.

Also doesn't take into account that we have reached two cup finals. But it doesn't surprise me this kind of bias rewriting of Poch's time here. It surprises me even less that it is you trying to justify it.