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OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Sheffield United

Man of the match

  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Glenda's Legs said:
I do understand that mindset. But it's easy to say 'play the youth instead.' Yet if we bought in Academy players to replace those that are underperforming then relegation is nailed on, imo. i.e. our academy players are not going to be good enough to be chucked into such a pressurised situation and it would likely harm their development. I don't see disgruntled fans being happy with that either.

The thing is, we are not really hearing any substantial rumours about Poch having lost the dressing room, so I don't think that's the problem - yet. There is an issue clearly, I just don't know what it is. I have said before that if Poch has one fault it's possibly stubbornness. I think maybe he is so fixed on his rebuilding project that he has alienated some players. Yet there have been games where things have clicked. I don't sense the same unity amongst our players that we've had in the past, but at the same time I don't sense that they have altogether given up on Poch. It's a conundrum for sure.
Overall I'm "content" with seeing how this will play out for a bit longer.
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And this is the key. Its exactly how long do you leave it. A Top 4 spot has sailed off into the distance. 5th and 6th place are currently easily attainable if we begin to play again, but losing/not winning is an easy habit to get into and hard one to shake off.

Two weeks off to dwell on it, but we need to winning league games soon,because if we slip into a relgation batte by New Year, we are in big trouble, we cant win away and most of our home games in 2020 are against the top teams
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I do understand that mindset. But it's easy to say 'play the youth instead.' Yet if we bought in Academy players to replace those that are underperforming then relegation is nailed on, imo. i.e. our academy players are not going to be good enough to be chucked into such a pressurised situation and it would likely harm their development. I don't see disgruntled fans being happy with that either.

The thing is, we are not really hearing any substantial rumours about Poch having lost the dressing room, so I don't think that's the problem - yet. There is an issue clearly, I just don't know what it is. I have said before that if Poch has one fault it's possibly stubbornness. I think maybe he is so fixed on his rebuilding project that he has alienated some players. Yet there have been games where things have clicked. I don't sense the same unity amongst our players that we've had in the past, but at the same time I don't sense that they have altogether given up on Poch. It's a conundrum for sure.
Overall I'm "content" with seeing how this will play out for a bit longer.
Click to expand...

Im not talking about a blanket playing of youth. Rather a, as a last resort, preference to playing a player that actually gives a brick rather than the like of Eriksen.

Ive been arguing for ages as to why the fudge are Sanchez, Moura, Lamela, Alli, Davies, KWP... on the bench watching supposed senior players stink up the place. This is some way away from just playing youth.

If it actually came down to it though, if Poch took the option of putting in a youth player rather than an underperforming senior? I actually think fans would be onside. KWP is an absolutely ripe example right now. We know theres every chance he wont make it long term. We know its most likely we get a 6/10 performance every week. But we also know he will be consistent, and that it means something to him to play, and he will give his all. Which is a marked improvement on Aurier or out of position CBs. I think fans would be ok with that, personally.

I also think, if KWP is to ever stand a chance of making it, he really needs to be given a run to see what he's got. Its utterly mental he is so over looked, IMO.

There have been rumours of rumblings against Poch and his methods. Whether or not you buy into them is of course personal preference.

Though given their complete lack of edge, the "going through the motions" nature of their performances, Im not inclined to think Poch hasnt lost them to be honest.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not talking about a blanket playing of youth. Rather a, as a last resort, preference to playing a player that actually gives a brick rather than the like of Eriksen.

Ive been arguing for ages as to why the fudge are Sanchez, Moura, Lamela, Alli, Davies, KWP... on the bench watching supposed senior players stink up the place. This is some way away from just playing youth.

If it actually came down to it though, if Poch took the option of putting in a youth player rather than an underperforming senior? I actually think fans would be onside. KWP is an absolutely ripe example right now. We know theres every chance he wont make it long term. We know its most likely we get a 6/10 performance every week. But we also know he will be consistent, and that it means something to him to play, and he will give his all. Which is a marked improvement on Aurier or out of position CBs. I think fans would be ok with that, personally.

I also think, if KWP is to ever stand a chance of making it, he really needs to be given a run to see what he's got. Its utterly mental he is so over looked, IMO.

There have been rumours of rumblings against Poch and his methods. Whether or not you buy into them is of course personal preference.

Though given their complete lack of edge, the "going through the motions" nature of their performances, Im not inclined to think Poch hasnt lost them to be honest.
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I think KWP is in between now. He can't be called a youth player any more. He's 22 and has been part of the senior squad for a couple of seasons. I am however equally flummoxed as to why he isn't getting an opportunity. There was some 'ITK' (yeah, I know) posted here recently that he just isn't showing 'it' in training. I also recall Poch in his book talking about Marcus Edwards (but I think the point he was making was more generic) and saying that he looked to the opinion of his senior players as to whether they were confident that a younger player was ready to be brought through. (They have to trust in their ability after all if expected to play alongside them). So there maybe a few different reasons why KWP isn't trusted, which is a huge shame imo.

I think our fans are far less forgiving than you think. Bringing in a youth player who doesn't make the grade is not going to be accepted for long.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not talking about a blanket playing of youth. Rather a, as a last resort, preference to playing a player that actually gives a brick rather than the like of Eriksen.

Ive been arguing for ages as to why the fudge are Sanchez, Moura, Lamela, Alli, Davies, KWP... on the bench watching supposed senior players stink up the place. This is some way away from just playing youth.

If it actually came down to it though, if Poch took the option of putting in a youth player rather than an underperforming senior? I actually think fans would be onside. KWP is an absolutely ripe example right now. We know theres every chance he wont make it long term. We know its most likely we get a 6/10 performance every week. But we also know he will be consistent, and that it means something to him to play, and he will give his all. Which is a marked improvement on Aurier or out of position CBs. I think fans would be ok with that, personally.

I also think, if KWP is to ever stand a chance of making it, he really needs to be given a run to see what he's got. Its utterly mental he is so over looked, IMO.

There have been rumours of rumblings against Poch and his methods. Whether or not you buy into them is of course personal preference.

Though given their complete lack of edge, the "going through the motions" nature of their performances, Im not inclined to think Poch hasnt lost them to be honest.
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Last week fans were saying we don't care as long as the rebels don't play, poor show and see what happened.
Talk is easy, it would be fun to see how long Jose would get before some started complaining about the football.
People like to moan.
 
glasgowspur said:
Last week fans were saying we don't care as long as the rebels don't play, poor show and see what happened.
Talk is easy, it would be fun to see how long Jose would get before some started complaining about the football.
People like to moan.
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I think people are entitled to moan. Our last two game games have seen us comprehensively outplayed by Watford and Sheffield United. If things don’t improve quickly we are going to be in a relegation battle. Do you think that should be the limit of our ambitions given what is available to us?

I certainly am not happy so long as the so called rebels are dropped. I’ll only be happy when we have shape, tactics, in game management and good results.
 
Armchair Expert said:
I think people are entitled to moan. Our last two game games have seen us comprehensively outplayed by Watford and Sheffield United. If things don’t improve quickly we are going to be in a relegation battle. Do you think that should be the limit of our ambitions given what is available to us?

I certainly am not happy so long as the so called rebels are dropped. I’ll only be happy when we have shape, tactics, in game management and good results.
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People are entitled to moan, some moan whether they are entitled to or not is my point.
 
glasgowspur said:
Last week fans were saying we don't care as long as the rebels don't play, poor show and see what happened.
Talk is easy, it would be fun to see how long Jose would get before some started complaining about the football.
People like to moan.
Click to expand...

People need to see the rebels are not the issue, a symptom yes - but not the issue.

We have been as brick with out them as with.
 
Legohamster said:
People need to see the rebels are not the issue, a symptom yes - but not the issue.

We have been as brick with out them as with.
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Toby, Rose and eriksen all said they wanted to leave when we were at our height, so they may not be the cause but they aren't a symptom either.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I think KWP is in between now. He can't be called a youth player any more. He's 22 and has been part of the senior squad for a couple of seasons. I am however equally flummoxed as to why he isn't getting an opportunity. There was some 'ITK' (yeah, I know) posted here recently that he just isn't showing 'it' in training. I also recall Poch in his book talking about Marcus Edwards (but I think the point he was making was more generic) and saying that he looked to the opinion of his senior players as to whether they were confident that a younger player was ready to be bought through. (They have to trust in their ability after all if expected to play alongside them). So there maybe a few different reasons why KWP isn't trusted, which is a huge shame imo.

I think our fans are far less forgiving than you think. Bringing in a youth player who doesn't make the grade is not going to be accepted for long.
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According to this: https://www.transfermarkt.com/kyle-walker-peters/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/341051
KWP has a grand total of 12 premier league appearances, adding up to 804 minutes. Im not sure if all were starts.
While Im not inclined to get into a pedantry argument about what is/isnt a youth player, I think its fair to say he is VERY inexperienced - very much like a youth player.

It may be that he isnt doing it in training, its possible. But times are desperate, and Ive seen nothing in KWPs performances to suggest he doesnt deserve a chance.

Theres also a chicken and egg element - lets say he isnt impressing in training - could it be because no matter what he just doesnt get a chance?

And I think fans are smart enough to read a situation. Id personally be very happy to see Poch kicking ass, and having faith in a young player ahead of a senior.

glasgowspur said:
Last week fans were saying we don't care as long as the rebels don't play, poor show and see what happened.
Talk is easy, it would be fun to see how long Jose would get before some started complaining about the football.
People like to moan.
Click to expand...

Jose's teams tend to score among the most in their league, concede the least, and win a lot of games. Now wouldnt that be fun?

This last week Poch made nearly every decision I wanted him to. After RSB I really hoped to see some verve, some focus, dynamism - to see us build on a good performance. And we got served cold gruel instead.

I am very happy the like of Eriksen werent in. I am very unhappy there was no building on RSB, and no real direction it seems. Its one of those things leading me to the increasing belief Poch just isnt going to make it.

However, I think its fair to say Ive been very consistent in saying Id back Poch throwing his weight around and actually showing them who is boss. If that meant dropping someone for an academy player (if - for example) Id be fine with it.
 
glasgowspur said:
Last week fans were saying we don't care as long as the rebels don't play, poor show and see what happened.
Talk is easy, it would be fun to see how long Jose would get before some started complaining about the football.
People like to moan.
Click to expand...
I don't really care if Eriksen, Jan or Toby play I'm concerned about our performances and results. Whatever selection works to get us back on track I support whomever that is.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk
 
glasgowspur said:
Last week fans were saying we don't care as long as the rebels don't play, poor show and see what happened.
Talk is easy, it would be fun to see how long Jose would get before some started complaining about the football.
People like to moan.
Click to expand...
Different people want different things and this moan at different things, though some moan no matter what.

Pochettino has been ambitious, he wants us to be title challengers, he's repeated it often enough. February this year we looked like we might just mount such a title challenge...

Since then we're picking up about a point a game. We're fourteenth a third of the way into the season. If this isn't a time to moan then moaning might as well vivre something that gets you instantly banned on here as there probably wouldn't be a time for it.
 
glasgowspur said:
Do you think there's an element of some of them being to friendly, not wanting to dig their mates out.
That's what's coming across to me with Harry, rather than dig them out he's trying to make up for it himself and running himself I to the ground.
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Who knows in all honesty, as i have said i really believe that some of the players are not doing all they can. As for Kane he ( imo) is not a capt.
 
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