OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Sheffield United

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Can all the posters putting Sheffield in bold or quotation go and look at their results and league position and come back and explain to us why we should beat them?

I've been warning about this game for a while now, their performance and the result comes as no surprise (disappointingly)

Sheffield United are a very good side, and I honestly think they deserved 3 points yesterday.

So in the way you are looking at it, completely fair point.

There is the flip side to that though, The CL finalists, perennial top 4 side, at home, really should expect to beat a newly promoted side that were last in the prem 10 years ago.

That Sheff Utd fully deserved the win, really only shows how far back we have fallen. It's damning.

And that is not meant in any way to take something from how well Sheff Utd are doing.

 

[glasgowspur]

Are you saying that, when playing at home, we should not expect to beat teams above us?
Are your expectations that low?

I've been a Tottenham fan for 40 years, I never expect to beat anyone .
In all seriousness, having watched all our games and a few of theirs, no I didn't expect to beat them.
I'm happy with a point, but not the performance.
My point though isn't really about the team but the fan base, when did we become so entitled.

Sheffield have taken points off Chelsea, beaten arsenal were really unlucky against Liverpool and Leicester. And yet we on here are raging that we can't turn them over.

 

[glasgowspur]

I've been warning about this game for a while now, their performance and the result comes as no surprise (disappointingly)

Sheffield United are a very good side, and I honestly think they deserved 3 points yesterday.

So in the way you are looking at it, completely fair point.

There is the flip side to that though, The CL finalists, perennial top 4 side, at home, really should expect to beat a newly promoted side that were last in the prem 10 years ago.

That Sheff Utd fully deserved the win, really only shows how far back we have fallen. It's damning.

And that is not meant in any way to take something from how well Sheff Utd are doing.

The how far we've fallen would be fine if it was only us they are beating, taken points off but it isn't.
We aren't at the races at the moment, but let's not detract from what Sheffield are doing, it's not a good place to be.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The how far we've fallen would be fine if it was only us they are beating, taken points off but it isn't.
We aren't at the races at the moment, but let's not detract from what Sheffield are doing, it's not a good place to be.

Quite explicitly I stated I was taking nothing from them at all. And even gave the example of how I've been backing them for some time.

But we have fallen, a long way. 2 years ago that's a game we won, imo. A bloody hard fought contest, I'm sure, but we take the points.

Now? You're arguing we shouldn't expect such a thing. Which is why I'm saying it's indicative of how far back we have slipped.

THAT is the issue, imo, people just accepting were poor enough to justify a result like yesterday

 

[Kandi1977]

That's a very good demonstration of how lethargic we looked throughout the game. Half-hearted, backing off.
Only one player in that clip - GLC - makes any attempt to win the ball back, by which time they've walked it into practically the final third.

There was one moment, I think just a few minutes before they scored, where Aurier got tinkled off because there was absolutely zero pressing, so he charged up the flank himself to pressure their left back, and Aurier punshed his fists in the air when he realised no one else bothered to move.
At that moment I realised that the team is dead, and they've just phoned it in. Poch will not be able to fix this.

 

[glasgowspur]

Quite explicitly I stated I was taking nothing from them at all. And even gave the example of how I've been backing them for some time.

But we have fallen, a long way. 2 years ago that's a game we won, imo. A bloody hard fought contest, I'm sure, but we take the points.

Now? You're arguing we shouldn't expect such a thing. Which is why I'm saying it's inactive of how far back we have slipped.

THAT is the issue, imo, people just accepting were poor enough to justify a result like yesterday

You have been quite fulsome in your praise for Sheffield so this isn't about you.
Just as its not about any other game.
All I'm trying to say is let's 1, give credit to Sheffield for their display yesterday and the start they have had, and 2, stop acting like we should just turn up to beat "lesser' teams.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I'm really not sure I've seen anyone saying that, to be honest

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You have been quite fulsome in your praise for Sheffield so this isn't about you.
Just as its not about any other game.
All I'm trying to say is let's 1, give credit to Sheffield for their display yesterday and the start they have had, and 2, stop acting like we should just turn up to beat "lesser' teams.

maybe the players feels like some fans and they just have to turn up to win... would explain why some stroll through games

 

[Mikey10]

I've been a Tottenham fan for 40 years, I never expect to beat anyone .
In all seriousness, having watched all our games and a few of theirs, no I didn't expect to beat them.
I'm happy with a point, but not the performance.
My point though isn't really about the team but the fan base, when did we become so entitled.

Sheffield have taken points off Chelsea, beaten arsenal were really unlucky against Liverpool and Leicester. And yet we on here are raging that we can't turn them over.

I’d agree if it was one game, but this has been going on since January. It’s now November.

 

[glasgowspur]

I’d agree if it was one game, but this has been going on since January. It’s now November.

Obviously not explaining it correctly.
Let put it another way, Colchester and Brighton were bad results against struggling teams, criticism was warranted and can be given without it reflecting on our thoughts or feelings for the opposition.
Sheffield do not fall into that category for me.
By all means slag off our team but don't do it in a way that belittles what has proven to be a very good team.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

There was one moment, I think just a few minutes before they scored, where Aurier got tinkled off because there was absolutely zero pressing, so he charged up the flank himself to pressure their left back, and Aurier punshed his fists in the air when he realised no one else bothered to move.
At that moment I realised that the team is dead, and they've just phoned it in. Poch will not be able to fix this.

I think there were quite a few similar instances. I recall Lo Celso picking up the ball on the sideline and running diagonally across/up the width of pitch, with no one moving into space for him to pass to (this may have been after Dele was taken off).

The thing is we did play well first half against Bayern, both games against Belgrade (quality of opposition granted) and even against Liverpool there seemed to be a game plan that the players followed, which at least shows they are receptive to direction. So I don’t buy that the players are just phoning it in, however something is clearly wrong.

We have never been able to cope well with teams that press us with aggression as Sheffield did yesterday and I’m not sure Poch really has an answer to that.

Edit to add - NDombele playing on through injury possibly didn’t help either.

 

[markysimmo]

38 points in last 38 games, it’s not a blip, it’s terminal

 

[parklane1]

The playing group need to take their share of the blame for our current situation.. Poch can't legislate for a total lack of effort. Sobering to watch in isolation.

Said the same after the Brighton game, we have a real problem on the pitch among some players.
We can all blame Poch for what is happening but some of our players need a real kick up the arse for not trying. I have been around football long enough to see its as plain as day that we have players who are just going through the motions.

I am sure some will say that is all down to Poch but there are players on the field who should have some pride in themselves and put more effort in. Its not happening and we are desperate for a leader on the field to start upsetting the players who are not putting in what they should be.

 

[glasgowspur]

Said the same after the Brighton game, we have a real problem on the pitch among some players.
We can all blame Poch for what is happening but some of our players need a real kick up the arse for not trying. I have been around football long enough to see its as plain as day that we have players who are just going through the motions.

I am sure some will say that is all down to Poch but there are players on the field who should have some pride in themselves and put more effort in. Its not happening and we are desperate for a leader on the field to start upsetting the players who are not putting in what they should be.

As a matter of interest who do you think is going through the motions?
For me Toby, Rose and aurier are just not doing all they should.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Said the same after the Brighton game, we have a real problem on the pitch among some players.
We can all blame Poch for what is happening but some of our players need a real kick up the arse for not trying. I have been around football long enough to see its as plain as day that we have players who are just going through the motions.

I am sure some will say that is all down to Poch but there are players on the field who should have some pride in themselves and put more effort in. Its not happening and we are desperate for a leader on the field to start upsetting the players who are not putting in what they should be.

The thing is, for me - it does come to Poch. He is playing them.

If he can fix their attitudes, I dont know - maybe? maybe not? But he doesnt have to put them on the field and watch them dilly dally about for 90 minutes.

I would honestly rather see an academy kid full of enthusiasm given chances than watch some of these players "performances".

And I think that kind of firm hand from management can have a really positive effect all round.

 

[parklane1]

As a matter of interest who do you think is going through the motions?
For me Toby, Rose and aurier are just not doing all they should.

Well there are players who seem to be a lot worse players then they should be, i know they are getting older and maybe slowing down but the likes of Toby, Rose, Eriksen are not playing as hard as they used to ( not are they not playing as well but they seem to be going through the motions and) imo) that is more to do with their attitude then age.

The problem is once a couple of players start doing that it can/does spread over the team, that is where a good capt can start sorting it out, it can be done but as i have said for ages we lack that leader on the pitch. The only one who seems to be able to do that is Dier but sadly with all the health problems he has had he has been unable to prove if he can.

And at the moment( sadly imo) there seem to be a lot of fans who are slagging him off for not playing well despite him being ill for a long period.

 

[glasgowspur]

Well there are players who seem to be a lot worse players then they should be, i know they are getting older and maybe slowing down but the likes of Toby, Rose, Eriksen are not playing as hard as they used to ( not are they not playing as well but they seem to be going through the motions and) imo) that is more to do with their attitude then age.

The problem is once a couple of players start doing that it can/does spread over the team, that is where a good capt can start sorting it out, it can be done but as i have said for ages we lack that leader on the pitch. The only one who seems to be able to do that is Dier but sadly with all the health problems he has had he has been unable to prove if he can.

And at the moment( sadly imo) there seem to be a lot of fans who are slagging him off for not playing well despite him being ill for a long period.

Do you think there's an element of some of them being to friendly, not wanting to dig their mates out.
That's what's coming across to me with Harry, rather than dig them out he's trying to make up for it himself and running himself I to the ground.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Do you think there's an element of some of them being to friendly, not wanting to dig their mates out.
That's what's coming across to me with Harry, rather than dig them out he's trying to make up for it himself and running himself I to the ground.

Quite possible.

I think theres maybe a case for Poch being too friendly/personally invested with them as well. Giving them far more faith and leeway than they deserve.

He seems the type, IMO. Though I think managers really need a cold ruthless streak as well to really get the best out of a squad. If Im right about Poch hopefully this is a lesson he is learning right now.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

The thing is, for me - it does come to Poch. He is playing them.

If he can fix their attitudes, I dont know - maybe? maybe not? But he doesnt have to put them on the field and watch them dilly dally about for 90 minutes.

I would honestly rather see an academy kid full of enthusiasm given chances than watch some of these players "performances".

And I think that kind of firm hand from management can have a really positive effect all round.

I do understand that mindset. But it's easy to say 'play the youth instead.' Yet if we bought in Academy players to replace those that are underperforming then relegation is nailed on, imo. i.e. our academy players are not going to be good enough to be chucked into such a pressurised situation and it would likely harm their development. I don't see disgruntled fans being happy with that either.

The thing is, we are not really hearing any substantial rumours about Poch having lost the dressing room, so I don't think that's the problem - yet. There is an issue clearly, I just don't know what it is. I have said before that if Poch has one fault it's possibly stubbornness. I think maybe he is so fixed on his rebuilding project that he has alienated some players. Yet there have been games where things have clicked. I don't sense the same unity amongst our players that we've had in the past, but at the same time I don't sense that they have altogether given up on Poch. It's a conundrum for sure.
Overall I'm "content" with seeing how this will play out for a bit longer.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Watford are showing signs of improvement...

Indeed they are, which is becoming more worrying, as so to are Saudi Sportswashing Machine