Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Yes.... Levy is bound to increase the price of my already ridiculously priced Season Ticket if having to pay £30 million to get rid of Poch!

(I was talking from the point of view of Levy. I think how much he would have to pay to get rid of Pochettino would play a big part in his decision).

Ive seen £30m quoted plenty, which seems to be a completely arbitrary calculation of contact value x years remaining.

I would be utterly stunned if that was even remotely the case though.

Lets be honest, who actually believes Levy would leave himself open to that kind of liability?

Far more likely, IMO, one of the below:
- Agreed break clauses, IE X amount if 4 years remaining, Y amount if 3 years remaining... or
- Some small severance and we honour his salary until he finds a new job.

I tend to think the latter, was it Conte that had that situation recently?

In which case I think letting Poch go wouldnt actually be as financially prohibitive as common consensus might have you believe.

As I said, ultimately - its Levy - who really thinks he wouldnt have this buttoned up to suit him?

 

[Raziel]

Ive seen £30m quoted plenty, which seems to be a completely arbitrary calculation of contact value x years remaining.

I would be utterly stunned if that was even remotely the case though.

Lets be honest, who actually believes Levy would leave himself open to that kind of liability?

Far more likely, IMO, one of the below:
- Agreed break clauses, IE X amount if 4 years remaining, Y amount if 3 years remaining... or
- Some small severance and we honour his salary until he finds a new job.

I tend to think the latter, was it Conte that had that situation recently?

In which case I think letting Poch go wouldnt actually be as financially prohibitive as common consensus might have you believe.

As I said, ultimately - its Levy - who really thinks he wouldnt have this buttoned up to suit him?

Well lets be clear, Poch has no agent, so he negotiated the deal himself with Levy, I wouldn't be surprised if when we fire him he owes us money

The 30M is to your point, nothing more than a wild guess and I don't know a single manager who has received any payment close to that (IIRC United, Chelsea's payoffs were <10M)

 

[billyiddo]

Actually don't think it seriously comes into play. People confuse Levy's money management with being cheap/stupid .. If he was just cheap he could have built the stadium for half the price.

Levy will never keep an underperforming manager in place (below whatever his line in the sand is) for purely money reasons.

Agree

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

IIRC United, Chelsea's payoffs were <10M

https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/08/much-will-cost-manchester-united-sack-ole-gunnar-solskjaer-10880384/

Apparently Utds prior sackings have cost them a lot - Mourinho (and team) circa £19m. Though it seems Woodward has learned his lesson and agreed £7m with OGS should he go. Bizarrely they also paid up Moyes contract as a goodwill gesture, so perhaps not the most appropriate example!

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/13/jose-mourinho-chelsea-rui-faria-8m-severance-pay

Mourinho (and team) leaving Chelsea was £8m

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chelsea-ordered-to-pay-antonio-conte-9m-compensation-3pjmlxg6d

Conte £9m

https://offthepitch.com/a/last-four...id-ps130-million-compensation-sacked-managers

Apparently Sarri's deal said if he was sacked he would get one years salary (£5m)

Ranieri when sacked from Fulham got the rest of that seasons salary

Everton paid Martinez £11m (per tribunal)



I think, really, its probably fair to assume that whole "too expensive to sack" line most likely is baseless and should be ignored.

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe?

Theres the obvious cases of Mourinho and Allegri being available, and whether you like either personally - their CVs are top tier and arguably either would be worth giving a chance.

After that - I cant help thinking we could attract any number of managers all the same. Even those in work.

We have a huge amount to offer anyone in footballing terms, and Poch is currently (I believe, at least) one of the highest paid managers around - so the whole deal is very enticing IMHO.

I was told in the summer that Allegri had been sounded out if Poch were to have walked. Can never be true how accurate any of these things are, but given who I heard it from I gave it strong attention. Until “the dinner” between him and Levy, I was as much expecting change as anything else...whether Allegri remains available is another thing. I can see Mourinho at Bayern though..:

I say this independent of my own opinion on it all obviously.

 

[thfcsteff]

Well lets be clear, Poch has no agent, so he negotiated the deal himself with Levy, I wouldn't be surprised if when we fire him he owes us money

The 30M is to your point, nothing more than a wild guess and I don't know a single manager who has received any payment close to that (IIRC United, Chelsea's payoffs were <10M)

That figure includes his backroom staff as I understand it.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I was told in the summer that Allegri had been sounded out if Poch were to have walked. Can never be true how accurate any of these things are, but given who I heard it from I gave it strong attention. Until “the dinner” between him and Levy, I was as much expecting change as anything else...whether Allegri remains available is another thing. I can see Mourinho at Bayern though..:

I say this independent of my own opinion on it all obviously.

Technically Allegri IS available, so I guess it depends how that sounding out went.

I think that we were apparently sounding out other managers, in anticipation of Poch going (walking?), it says a lot about the state of things behind the scenes.

Its all well and good demanding people back Poch, but it doesnt even sound like his commitment is absolute, which can only lead to things being unsettled - more so than want away players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Ive seen £30m quoted plenty, which seems to be a completely arbitrary calculation of contact value x years remaining.

I would be utterly stunned if that was even remotely the case though.

Lets be honest, who actually believes Levy would leave himself open to that kind of liability?

Far more likely, IMO, one of the below:
- Agreed break clauses, IE X amount if 4 years remaining, Y amount if 3 years remaining... or
- Some small severance and we honour his salary until he finds a new job.

I tend to think the latter, was it Conte that had that situation recently?

In which case I think letting Poch go wouldnt actually be as financially prohibitive as common consensus might have you believe.

As I said, ultimately - its Levy - who really thinks he wouldnt have this buttoned up to suit him?

I think when Poch negotiated his last contract he probably held more cards than Levy. At that point Man Utd (who can offer a manager's salary of twice what we pay) were seriously after Pochettino. If Levy has a clause in place that says a club have to pay a certain amount to poach Poch then I would imagine that it would work both ways (I would've insisted on that deal if I was Pochettino at the time he negotiated his last deal and if Poch didn't negotiate that then he really should stop representing himself and get himself an agent.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think when Poch negotiated his last contract he probably held more cards than Levy. At that point Man Utd (who can offer a manager's salary of twice what we pay) were seriously after Pochettino. If Levy has a clause in place that says a club have to pay a certain amount to poach Poch then I would imagine that it would work both ways (I would've insisted on that deal if I was Pochettino at the time he negotiated his last deal and if Poch didn't negotiate that then he really should stop representing himself and get himself an agent.

Which means there was agreement, not for how much.

Do you think Pochs severance will be £30m?

Poch managed to get himself one of the highest salaries around, so yes - things do work both ways.

I would still be utterly amazed if Levy got himself on the hook for that figure though. Regardless of whether Poch had leverage or not.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I accept that Eriksen is not an easy player to replace as every top team in Europe is looking for such players,

Pity they're not looking at Eriksen.

 

[Pirate55]

And yet we managed to beat Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham away in the LC. We beat Everton away 6-2 and thrashed Bournemouth 5-0, just two months before. For me Burnley was a clear turning point.

And me. It was prior to the Burnley game Pock talked up our PL challenge. It all went tits up from then onwards.

 

[thfcsteff]

Technically Allegri IS available, so I guess it depends how that sounding out went.

I think that we were apparently sounding out other managers, in anticipation of Poch going (walking?), it says a lot about the state of things behind the scenes.

Its all well and good demanding people back Poch, but it doesnt even sound like his commitment is absolute, which can only lead to things being unsettled - more so than want away players.

Mate,


In the spirit of moving on and discussion...

The rift was a culmination of many factors the manager felt had either not been delivered or ignored for some time. It was ugly in the summer for a while. He loves the club, he does, but things were not done. I swear, the whole Netflix thing did not help either, and that didn’t just happen recently.

I understand the reluctance to back him, I really do. Results have been terrible and it is currently a slog. I have my reasons - specified many times- but again, I see why there is a counter-view.

The only thing I ever won’t acknowledge is that “this” is all his fault. Because it isn’t.

As for your Allegri point, he was planning to take a full season out of football and review options this summer (as I was told). Of course he might well change his mind, but that was the thought process...

 

[thfcsteff]

Which means there was agreement, not for how much.

Do you think Pochs severance will be £30m?

Poch managed to get himself one of the highest salaries around, so yes - things do work both ways.

I would still be utterly amazed if Levy got himself on the hook for that figure though. Regardless of whether Poch had leverage or not.

Again I think it would include the whole backroom staff.

 

[scaramanga]

this all completely omits the context that we were also making a run to the CL final, which has an emotional and physical toll, particularly on squads over achieving to get there. It wasn’t so long ago Poch was getting praised for getting results with basically ‘no midfield’. With Dele in and out of the side, with Kane missing for the last 2 months, with Dier ill for a year, with no Lamela for the last 3 months at least.

this is why when people say, take the seasons as they are and appreciate the context. Sure, if you’re only looking at League form and ignoring we made the final of the biggest club competition in the world, things look very different to what they actually were.

And how were our performances up to and in the final?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

And how were our performances up to and in the final?

quite brick in the league, quite decent in the CL? (Dortmund both legs, City both legs, Ajax second leg)

 

[Baleforce]

quite brick in the league, quite decent in the CL? (Dortmund both legs, City both legs, Ajax second leg)

we were awful in the second leg against city imo, and for large parts of the games against Ajax

 

[scaramanga]

quite brick in the league, quite decent in the CL? (Dortmund both legs, City both legs, Ajax second leg)

I think you and I have a different understanding of decent then.

I think Dortmund deserved something out of the away leg - probably not enough to stop us going through though.

I thought City were the better team in both legs and Ajax were better than us for 135 mins.

The less said about the final the better. It's as bad as I've seen us play for a long time. We were underprepared and undermotivated for a match we should have comfortably won.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think you and I have a different understanding of decent then.

I think Dortmund deserved something out of the away leg - probably not enough to stop us going through though.

I thought City were the better team in both legs and Ajax were better than us for 135 mins.

The less said about the final the better. It's as bad as I've seen us play for a long time. We were underprepared and undermotivated for a match we should have comfortably won.

Yeah, I think we do have a different understanding of decent. I’m not going to nitpick performances at the business end of the biggest club competition going. We competed, we had the mentality to score when we needed to and win, and that’s ok for me. The bar cannot be that we play another top 4 / top 8 team in the whole of Europe off the park for it to count as a ‘good’ performance. Note, I’m not saying the first leg against Ajax was decent, because that was an actual bad performance. But I’m really not having that winning some of the most high pressure games these players will ever fade and scoring multiple goals doesn’t count as decent. Come on.

Should have ‘comfortably’ won the CL final, against a team that got 98 points in the League, the experience of the previous final, after conceding a goal inside a minute and against a team that is leading the League this year? That is some very high standards, and a very Tottenham-centric view of the world.

 

[glasgowspur]

Yeah, I think we do have a different understanding of decent. I’m not going to nitpick performances at the business end of the biggest club competition going. We competed, we had the meteorology to score when we needed to and win, and that’s ok for me. The bar cannot be that we play another top 4 / top 8 team in the whole of Europe off the park for it to count as a ‘good’ performance. Note, I’m not saying the first leg against Ajax was decent, because that was an actual bad performance. But I’m really not having that winning some of the most high pressure games these players will ever fade and scoring multiple goals doesn’t count as decent. Come on.

Should have ‘comfortably’ won the CL final, against a team that got 98 points in the League, the experience of the previous final, after conceding a goal inside a minute and against a team that is leading the League this year? That is some very high standards, and a very Tottenham-centric view of the world.

We're relegation fodder on this form and Liverpool have lost something ilike three games this year, but we should have beaten them. Scara logic.

 

[scaramanga]

Yeah, I think we do have a different understanding of decent. I’m not going to nitpick performances at the business end of the biggest club competition going. We competed, we had the meteorology to score when we needed to and win, and that’s ok for me. The bar cannot be that we play another top 4 / top 8 team in the whole of Europe off the park for it to count as a ‘good’ performance. Note, I’m not saying the first leg against Ajax was decent, because that was an actual bad performance. But I’m really not having that winning some of the most high pressure games these players will ever fade and scoring multiple goals doesn’t count as decent. Come on.

Should have ‘comfortably’ won the CL final, against a team that got 98 points in the League, the experience of the previous final, after conceding a goal inside a minute and against a team that is leading the League this year? That is some very high standards, and a very Tottenham-centric view of the world.

Did you see Victimpool in that final? They were fudging awful and there for the taking.

They did nothing of note and we somehow contrived to do less.