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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Rorschach said:
The kids too busy tossing or playing video games probably won't vote.

edit: aside puberty is kicking in way earlier now.
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Is it? And does that even suggest youve gone through it by 16?

At 16 you arent deemed responsible enough to consume alchohol, or to drive a car, or to leave education. You live with your parents/carers and dont even have a concept of working to pay for your life, being responsible for bills etc. Youve literally never had a job, aside perhaps a few hours on a Saturday for pocket money.

This is not a person anyone should want making decisions that can effect self sufficient people/families/businesses.

Like I say, I understand the untainted/virtuous aspect of wanting to offer the vote, but honestly I think it would be a disastrous decision.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Is it? And does that even suggest youve gone through it by 16?

At 16 you arent deemed responsible enough to consume alchohol, or to drive a car, or to leave education. You live with your parents/carers and dont even have a concept of working to pay for your life, being responsible for bills etc. Youve literally never had a job, aside perhaps a few hours on a Saturday for pocket money.

This is not a person anyone should want making decisions that can effect self sufficient people/families/businesses.

Like I say, I understand the untainted/virtuous aspect of wanting to offer the vote, but honestly I think it would be a disastrous decision.
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I accept your opinion though disagree with the basic premise that age improves decision making. ;)
 
Gutter Boy said:
Somewhere like Sheffield will never vote Tory due to the Miners' Strike and things like that. It's why there needs to be an electoral pack - Brexit Party don't run in Conservative held and target seats, while the BP go after Labour's northern and midland industrial areas.
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I think something like this really could be key - for me, the tories harnessing the BP could well be the difference between a handy majority and a renewal of the mess we're currently stuck in.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Is it? And does that even suggest youve gone through it by 16?

At 16 you arent deemed responsible enough to consume alchohol, or to drive a car, or to leave education. You live with your parents/carers and dont even have a concept of working to pay for your life, being responsible for bills etc. Youve literally never had a job, aside perhaps a few hours on a Saturday for pocket money.

This is not a person anyone should want making decisions that can effect self sufficient people/families/businesses.

Like I say, I understand the untainted/virtuous aspect of wanting to offer the vote, but honestly I think it would be a disastrous decision.
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On the early puberty thing that would appear to be something fairly widely accepted now. We've been called into the school to talk about it and the repercussions - earlier sex education, etc.
 
Rorschach said:
I accept your opinion though disagree with the basic premise that age improves decision making. ;)
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Im not saying age improves decision making, but experience certainly does - and thats really the key thing missing at that age.

No life experience whatsoever. They are, for all intents and purposes, children.

Why not lower the voting age to 15? 12?
 
Rorschach said:
On the early puberty thing that would appear to be something fairly widely accepted now. We've been called into the school to talk about it and the repercussions - earlier sex education, etc.
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I dont know that its early puberty, or just kids being forced to grow up too fast.

From when my parents were kids, to me being a kid, not a huge amount has changed.

From me being a kid, to my children - things have changed so significantly, and quickly, I think we are yet to even understand the consequences, let alone what is/isnt right.

Which is a whole other conversation....
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I dont know that its early puberty, or just kids being forced to grow up too fast.

From when my parents were kids, to me being a kid, not a huge amount has changed.

From me being a kid, to my children - things have changed so significantly, and quickly, I think we are yet to even understand the consequences, let alone what is/isnt right.

Which is a whole other conversation....
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I'm talking physically.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I dont know that its early puberty, or just kids being forced to grow up too fast.

From when my parents were kids, to me being a kid, not a huge amount has changed.

From me being a kid, to my children - things have changed so significantly, and quickly, I think we are yet to even understand the consequences, let alone what is/isnt right.

Which is a whole other conversation....
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Couldn't agree more.

I also think this point, while fairly general, was another background contributor to the brexit vote. Worrying that it doesn't seem to have even registered with (or perhaps, is being wilfully ignored by) the politicians who are pushing agendas like this one.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Im not saying age improves decision making, but experience certainly does - and thats really the key thing missing at that age.

No life experience whatsoever. They are, for all intents and purposes, children.

Why not lower the voting age to 15? 12?
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Why not 30? Similar arguments could be applied. Life experience may just as well distort an objective opinion. Unencumbered by learned bias may help actually when choosing.
Anyway this is just a thought experiment as the amendment was dropped anyway. That's my last post on this.
 
I wonder why the vote for 16/17 years old plus the interests of students,on where their going to be in the election has become an issue all of a sudden,we've had students 5 years ago 10 years ago 15 years ago, their were 16 year olds 5 years ago 10 years ago...and on and on.......I wonder why?????.....its a fecking joke,not saying it shouldnt be looked at, but these parties all of a sudden taking an interest of these groups is an insult to our intelligence on the actual reason why....

What i say about 16 and 17 years and future voters we are creating a society of not respecting a democratic vote,thinking if they dont like it we will stamp our feet and sulk in the corner till enough of us are around and play holy feck with a democratic voting system ...who knows in twenty years time we will be playing three goals to Wembley and having numerous elections till the correct outcome has been achieved...crazy!!!
 
scaramanga said:
I think if we're to add other options to top few % IQ then other characteristics I'd welcome are running a successful business, having at least an undergrad level of understanding of economics, etc.
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As an very high IQer I actuallt i think it matters little
 
StephenH said:
As an very high IQer I actuallt i think it matters little
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I don't think it's the perfect measure but it's a fairly good measure between stupid/intelligent, and if we're going to restrict people's votes, stupid is a very good place to start.
 
a spur from swansea said:
I wonder why the vote for 16/17 years old plus the interests of students,on where their going to be in the election has become an issue all of a sudden,we've had students 5 years ago 10 years ago 15 years ago, their were 16 year olds 5 years ago 10 years ago...and on and on.......I wonder why?????.....its a fecking joke,not saying it shouldnt be looked at, but these parties all of a sudden taking an interest of these groups is an insult to our intelligence on the actual reason why....

What i say about 16 and 17 years and future voters we are creating a society of not respecting a democratic vote,thinking if they dont like it we will stamp our feet and sulk in the corner till enough of us are around and play holy feck with a democratic voting system ...who knows in twenty years time we will be playing three goals to Wembley and having numerous elections till the correct outcome has been achieved...crazy!!!
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Students are also good to try and mobilise because they have two addresses in different constituencies in parallel, so can get away with voting twice if they are so minded.
 
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