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Dele Alli

But is he good enought to be playing just off the striker for us. I mean Kane drops deeper now and will get 25+ in all competitions, Son will be 20+ again and I'd say Moura if a regular starter will give some awful inconsistent performances but will likely hit 20+ for the season. That's the benchmark now that Alli has to hit at a minimum.

I do think playing in different positions is beneficial to develop a player but he's been poor for 1 and a half seasons now and is coming to mid 20's and in my view has to really step it up a notch and show what he's capable of.
 
P.D. said:
But is he good enought to be playing just off the striker for us. I mean Kane drops deeper now and will get 25+ in all competitions, Son will be 20+ again and I'd say Moura if a regular starter will give some awful inconsistent performances but will likely hit 20+ for the season. That's the benchmark now that Alli has to hit at a minimum.

I do think playing in different positions is beneficial to develop a player but he's been poor for 1 and a half seasons now and is coming to mid 20's and in my view has to really step it up a notch and show what he's capable of.
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He would be my first choice to play that role based on the level he was consistently performing to before being dropped deeper.
 
billyiddo said:
He would be my first choice to play that role based on the level he was consistently performing to before being dropped deeper.
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Where would Son play then? I'm assuming we're sticking with the diamond rather than 4-2-3-1. Maybe Son and Kane up top with Alli behind would be interesting, we haven't seen many games where we've tried that.
 
P.D. said:
Where would Son play then? I'm assuming we're sticking with the diamond rather than 4-2-3-1. Maybe Son and Kane up top with Alli behind would be interesting, we haven't seen many games where we've tried that.
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Son is better than Ali imo and always has been. He has that extrovert streak that means he can and will do the unexpected which is especially useful against packed defenses.

Depending on what shape we play Ali will likely be competing for one of those berths behind the striker. I don't believe he is creative enough to play ACM as you're suggesting, his passing range isn't really intricate enough.

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Bishop said:
Son is better than Ali imo and always has been. He has that extrovert streak that means he can and will do the unexpected which is especially useful against packed defenses.

Depending on what shape we play Ali will likely be competing for one of those berths behind the striker. I don't believe he is creative enough to play ACM as you're suggesting, his passing range isn't really intricate enough.

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If we played a proper formation it wouldn't and wasn't an issue.

Alli behind, Kane upfront, Son coming in from wide.

Exactly right about Alli, he's brand of genius isn't that play a 8 out of 10 every week making key passes and controlling the tempo. He's the pop up in the box with two headers v Chelsea, the ball over the top lob the keeper past Arsenal etc

When he's deeper he wants time he doesn't have, you can almost see him thinking about what he's going to do next, further up it's instinctual, which is where he's unplayable. How many of his goals are him just ghosting in after not really being in the game.

 
Bishop said:
Son is better than Ali imo and always has been. He has that extrovert streak that means he can and will do the unexpected which is especially useful against packed defenses.

Depending on what shape we play Ali will likely be competing for one of those berths behind the striker. I don't believe he is creative enough to play ACM as you're suggesting, his passing range isn't really intricate enough.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk
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I don't agree, Son may be a better more natural finisher, but Alli has a better, more all round game and is often told by Poch his role as fit for purpose. I think he's lost his swagger a bit that he came to us with, I want him to be annoying and do out of this world things again. And scoring for fun again.
 
fernadez said:
If we played a proper formation it wouldn't and wasn't an issue.

Alli behind, Kane upfront, Son coming in from wide.

Exactly right about Alli, he's brand of genius isn't that play a 8 out of 10 every week making key passes and controlling the tempo. He's the pop up in the box with two headers v Chelsea, the ball over the top lob the keeper past Arsenal etc

When he's deeper he wants time he doesn't have, you can almost see him thinking about what he's going to do next, further up it's instinctual, which is where he's unplayable. How many of his goals are him just ghosting in after not really being in the game.

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I'm very much in agreement with you regarding where Ali does his best work. Like you say playing too deep he wants too much time on the ball, time he doesn't have.
indospurs said:
I don't agree, Son may be a better more natural finisher, but Alli has a better, more all round game and is often told by Poch his role as fit for purpose. I think he's lost his swagger a bit that he came to us with, I want him to be annoying and do out of this world things again. And scoring for fun again.
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I don't want to digress too much but I just believe without Son we are far to prone to static play. For me he is our most important player.

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indospurs said:
I don't agree, Son may be a better more natural finisher, but Alli has a better, more all round game and is often told by Poch his role as fit for purpose. I think he's lost his swagger a bit that he came to us with, I want him to be annoying and do out of this world things again. And scoring for fun again.
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When you factor in Allis age when he was playing that role and the scope he has to improve on that level with experience it puts him out in front imo - i would be looking to play something like

Kane Son
Alli
Ndombele Lo Celso
Winks
​
Anyway and on paper to me looks like a way of getting the diamond to work
 
I've never seen Kane and Son play effectively together is my other issue with the diamond (one of many). Kane's selflessness means he starts doing other stuff rather than being in the box.

Also playing Son with had never hindered his return before so I don't understand why the sudden need for a partnership. Let him isolate the full back and beat him, we severely lack dribblers and playing him inside makes it easier to gang up on our attack. The when Kane is injured or rested (never) he can be the focal point.

It's one of the changes that has made me think about Kane's physical condition. As in is there something preventing him from playing up top alone now hence the change. He's one of those strikers that plays better by himself. Both us and England has started playing him with a partner, some of his performances have be reminiscent of the old school 'big man little man' front acts I thought had been banned from the game.

Look how narrow the formation above is even on paper, there's no room for Alli to operate in, he'd be looking to pop into the same spaces as Son. Drop Son to the left of Alli, Lamela on current form to the right of him and suddenly there's angles of attack.
 
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I think Kane looks as fit as ever. Look at his Leicester goal, a player not 100% fit doesnt even attempt that.

I think its more Kane being a victim of his ability to cover for others. Very similar, really, to Alli as well.

That Kane can drop deep and pull the strings covers for Eriksens total collapse in form. He can fill the gap, but of course it comes at the price of Kane not being on the end of things.
 
Agree that Alli needs space to ghost into i.e. Kane pulls the defenders near post and he arrives back post.

If we focus all our attacking down the middle, their 4 defenders can pack the middle and there are no gaps.

We need SOME play wide, to pull the full back out wide and make their defenders move out of position. THEN we need movement ourselves, strikers running one way and runners breaking (untracked) into the box from deeper.

Regardless of writing formations down on paper, we have to stretch play by moving their defence. This does not mean ponderously working it wide and getting the full back to chip it in.

And we need runners from deep to cause panic, not 2 or 3 DMs watching from 30 yards out.

I'm talking about playing at pace with runners running everywhere so you can't track everyone - this is why City score for fun - and it is why we are so easy to defend against, everyone plays within themselves in their little area.




So whether we play Son or Lamela or Alli or Moura or me, the key is HOW we approach it, the intensity, daring to go beyond, making runs to pull their defence out of shape, not sitting deep in case they break.
 
fernadez said:
I've never seen Kane and Son play effectively together is my other issue with the diamond (one of many). Kane's selflessness means he starts doing other stuff rather than being in the box.

Also playing Son with had never hindered his return before so I don't understand why the sudden need for a partnership. Let him isolate the full back and beat him, we severely lack dribblers and playing him inside makes it easier to gang up on our attack. The when Kane is injured or rested (never) he can be the focal point.

It's one of the changes that has made me think about Kane's physical condition. As in is there something preventing him from playing up top alone now hence the change. He's one of those strikers that plays better by himself. Both us and England has started playing him with a partner, some of his performances have be reminiscent of the old school 'big man little man' front acts I thought had been banned from the game.

Look how narrow the formation above is even on paper, there's no room for Alli to operate in, he'd be looking to pop into the same spaces as Son. Drop Son to the left of Alli, Lamela on current form to the right of him and suddenly there's angles of attack.
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Hang on, weren't we playing a diamond at Leicester last saturday? I thought they linked up well from what i saw (big chunks of the first half, though didn't see the second half tbf).

Also, what about some of the games when we were blowing teams away with our finishing near the end of 2018, such Everton away, Bournemouth home, Cardiff away? I though we played a diamond in those games?

You do raise a fair point about interlinking at the attack in general though: how confident are we when we have a break on that the forwards will take the right passing decisions when breaking? It seems we rarely have a signature forward passing moves when we get into those situations unlike City, Liverpool, Chelsea at their best.
After all these years, that seems a big failing of Pochettino's coaching of our attackers tbh
 
When they play they don't seem like a partnership to me, their games don't seem like a natural fit too each other, like Crouch and Van der Vaart for example.

Son is probably a bit unpredictable to base your game off as a strike partner and playing with Kane you'd be expecting him to shoot then he passes and vice versa.

With Alli and Kane everyone knew what their roles were, it's just very hard to stop.

When I see us attack now, I always think back to when we spanked Liverpool at Wembley. Can't believe it's the same players.
 
Eric Dier and Davidson Sanchez have scored as many goals as Dele Alli in 2019.
Serge Aurier has scored one more than him in 2019.
 
Getting a bit annoyed with Alli nowadays. He used to be one of the best young players in the world at one time. But he hardly looks like the same player now. He was in top form for the first 2 years after joining us. But he has been in poor form for the last 2 years now. Wonder if he has let the fame get to his head. He better sort himself out soon or he will join the long list of wasted young English talents.
 
Look people he has terrible hamstring problems and is still one of the biggest talents we have.
As I've said before give him time. He has probably had to change the way runs etc to save further injures.
 
StephenH said:
Look people he has terrible hamstring problems and is still one of the biggest talents we have.
As I've said before give him time. He has probably had to change the way runs etc to save further injures.
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Hopefully Dele’s hamstring injuries don’t ruin his career, like what happened to Michael Owen at a similar age.
 
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