Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[elltrev]

We didn't have a central pair when we went down from 1-1 to 1-4, we had Winks all on his own.

I'm not sure that's true.

2nd goal - Winks and Ndombele are very close together centrally, and it's a brilliant finish.



3rd goal - we've switched to 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2, with Winks and Ndombele as the middle pairing (and Son and Sissoko out wide). Aurier loses his man by diving in, and arguably Winks and/or Ddombele don't track back quickly enough to help Toby.





4th goal - we're still in 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2. Winks needlessly passes the ball backwards under no pressure. Then Rose gives it back to him, this time he turns straight into trouble and loses the ball, and they score.



I'm not a fan of the diamond either, but I think it's increasingly being used as a fall-guy for all of our issues on GG. We weren't even playing it in the second half from what I can see, and yet it still gets blamed! (And in the first half, when we were playing it, we created the better chances).

 

[fernadez]

Our press last night was the same press that a lower league team does v a top team in a cup game.

Give it your all for as long as possible and hope that something happens before your fitness gives out and the opposition get into their stride.

It might have looked good, but it was never going to be sustainable for the midfield 3 as they had simply too much ground to cover and we never controlled the ball long enough to rest.

The idea is to press and be compact whether you win the ball or not, what should have happened is that if the press failed or Bayern had possession. Alli at the minimum should have dropped in to make a 4 in midfield, but him Kane and Son stayed high (except that bizarre passage of play when Kane was playing DM with Sissoko and Ndomblele either side of him.

We were defending in three different units instead of one.

 

[glasgowspur]

Do you really think starting Lamela would have made a significant difference? Like yourself I did think starting Dele was a strange decision ( I would have gone for Eriksen personally) but we ultimately conceded 7. Who were selected as the nominal ACM wouldn't have made a difference.

The major issue was the shape and how easily Bayern were able to play into spaces around our FBs.

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As the form player in the middle, then yes I think it would.
It's not that lamela is the best of our players for that position but he is the one on form, and just as important if we are going to press as we did at the start, the most rested
It makes no sense.

 

[harr1984]

With a little distance and consideration, I agree with this.
As the first half unfolded, the reaction from not just fans but more neutral commentators/media figures was that it was a great game and the two teams were both playing quite well, defensively open and yielding an exciting spectacle. That continued nearly up to the hour mark. That's not the view of your typical multi-goal humiliation match.
4-2 isn't an embarrassment, 7-2 is. The transition from one to the other came as we removed defensive players near the end of the game and threw 5 attackers on in an attempt to salvage something. It failed and one of the best teams in Europe capitalised.
That's not the usual diagnosis from a game where a team concedes seven or gets beat by five goals.
Not many teams other than Bayern would have held out quite so well against our attack last night, nor do I think we'd have conceded anywhere near as many against almost any other team.

Poch gambled at the end of yesterday's game, he badly badly lost. But there's not very much to draw in a broad sense because of the special nature of last night's match

Absolutely agree, it was a weird feeling watching that last night. It certainly didnt feel like a 7-2 should. First half it was very much we attack, they attack and if we were more clinical should have scored more. Second half started exactly the same, it was only the last 15 minutes when they really did destroy us but by that point we had gone for broke. When you are thrashed 7-2 you would think you haven't been in the game at all, but up until their 5th goal there was still a sense we could push them....

 

[glorygloryeze]

With the personel that we have available I think I would actually look to go with a 4-1-4-1 formation.

-------------------------------------------------------------Lloris
KWP/Sissoko--------------------Sanchez----------------------------------Vertonghen-------------------------Davies/Sessegnon
--------------------------------------------------------------Dier
Moura-------------Lo Celso/Lamela/Sissoko/Winks----------------N'Dombele/Ali/Sissoko/Winks-------Son/Sessegnon
-------------------------------------------------------------Kane

Trying to play players that actually want to be here as first choice.
Protection in front of the back four with Dier who should give those in front a bit of license to play
Natural width on either side so that our fullbacks don't need to play ridiculously high.
Decent creativity across the midfield four.
Dier able to drop in as a third centre half allowing Sanchez and Vertonghen to fan out and cover their full back if and when they do get forward.
Kane up front on his own where he tends to play best.

If looking at that team it only really needs proper top class replacements for KWP, Dier and Davies (with them dropping to cover) and perhaps some additional cover for Moura to be able to properly challenge for trophies.

The problem is that the above relies on Dier being fit and fine until (at least) January. Can anyone think of any experienced pro's who are proper holding players that might fancy a little 1.5 to 2.5 year swan song in the PL? available for a reasonably priced transfer in January? There must be a few of those sorts of player in Italy?

Sander Berge?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Absolutely agree, it was a weird feeling watching that last night. It certainly didnt feel like a 7-2 should. First half it was very much we attack, they attack and if we were more clinical should have scored more. Second half started exactly the same, it was only the last 15 minutes when they really did destroy us but by that point we had gone for broke. When you are thrashed 7-2 you would think you haven't been in the game at all, but up until their 5th goal there was still a sense we could push them....

Hold on your trying to put a context on it
It’s the same convo I had with my nephew
How the hell did that end up with us conceding 7....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sander Berge?

The giant Norwegian
Is he any good?

 

[JerusalemMan]

Absolutely agree, it was a weird feeling watching that last night. It certainly didnt feel like a 7-2 should. First half it was very much we attack, they attack and if we were more clinical should have scored more. Second half started exactly the same, it was only the last 15 minutes when they really did destroy us but by that point we had gone for broke. When you are thrashed 7-2 you would think you haven't been in the game at all, but up until their 5th goal there was still a sense we could push them....

When Neuer saved from Eriksen at 4-2 it was feeling like we could still get something from the game. That may have been the turning point for the result.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

When Neuer saved from Eriksen at 4-2 it was feeling like we could still get something from the game. That may have been the turning point for the result.

The turning point was conceding so late in the first half

 

[JerusalemMan]

Hold on your trying to put a context on it
It’s the same convo I had with my nephew
How the hell did that end up with us conceding 7....

Yeah, didn't someone post up the xG from last night which just showed some outlandish discrepancy. I'm wary of relying overly on stats but the game felt strange looking through the lens of the final score, and that xG thing explained a bit of that.

 

[SylDave]

When Neuer saved from Eriksen at 4-2 it was feeling like we could still get something from the game. That may have been the turning point for the result.

Yep I said it in the other thread at 2-4, at this point Dier should have been brought on for Sissoko or Winks, we were playing a 4231 and in the game it would not have been a defensive sub, it would have allowed Winks or Sissoko to transition the ball forward to the front 4 and allowed us to get at them with a solid foundation behind, instead Moura came on for Alli and we went 442 and neutralised the game for them, then the Lamela for Winks sub we just went full Ossie, we ended up with Eriksen sitting in front of the back 4 ffs.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah, didn't someone post up the xG from last night which just showed some outlandish discrepancy. I'm wary of relying overly on stats but the game felt strange looking through the lens of the final score, and that xG thing explained a bit of that.

It was massively odd
The Xg was roughly 1.5 each
They scored 7....
their finishing was excellent though and not one was a fluke

 

[glorygloryeze]

The giant Norwegian
Is he any good?

I haven't followed the player myself but i do remember that we were linked for quite a few windows in a row..allegedly..

You do wonder if Poch doesn't believe in defensive midfielders though (like some on here lol);
I can't remember any names linked in the last window for example AND he was happy to let Wanyama go AND let Dier sit in the bench...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I haven't followed the player myself but i do remember that we were linked for quite a few windows in a row..allegedly..

You do wonder if Poch doesn't believe in defensive midfielders though (like some on here lol);
I can't remember any names linked in the last window for example AND he was happy to let Wanyama go AND let Dier sit in the bench...

The trend is now for mobile aggressive players. All I know about Berge is he is massive

 

[glorygloryeze]

The trend is now for mobile aggressive players. All I know about Berge is he is massive

I agree; which is fair enough, but you do need someone who is defensively-minded/aware...none of our cms seem that way in the way peak Dembele, Dier or Wanyama were and we have suffered for over a year because of it

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Yeah, didn't someone post up the 3xG from last night which just showed some outlandish discrepancy. I'm wary of relying overly on stats but the game felt strange looking through the lens of the final score, and that 3xG thing explained a bit of that.

3G's stats are this. Poch is useless.
TBF, he has taken us as far as he can. Sometimes when you are at a company you get bored and wish you were doing your job elsewhere for more money for more lunches, for more exciting corporate events, with better colleagues and more exciting owners. Cant blame him for looking elsewhere but you certainly can blame him for the results. Managers need to move on, itls the way of the world.
Time for a new fresh approach, with some of the older players leaving. We are never going to win the league, not with City and Liverpool there. That is a fact. Just take it that we will always be a 3 to 6 placed team and deal with it. We have hit our ceiling, will never be better so should just hover around the CL places.

Nothing wrong with being a medium size broker, sometimes you steal clients off the big boys but you can never really compete with the big brokers unless you get bought out and become a big player. Spurs are very much like that. Just have to accept it and deal with it.

Bye bye Poch.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Regardless of whether Poch has been backed or not by the board, he amongst the players is probably suffering in terms of motivation because of these utterances:

- "A trophy is only for egos, it is not going to change our lives" <<Erm, isn't winning trophies the whole point of the rigourous training etc we go through??>>

- "If i win the CL i will leave the club" <<Erm, how can you cal me out on 'commitment' when you say that boss?>>

-"This might not be the best squad i've worked with here at Spurs" <<Take a hike!!>>

 

[scaramanga]

It would probably be the 2nd weakest midfield in terms of its defensive quality. I'm shuddering at the thought of it and feel a bit dirty but I'd advocate putting Dier in there ahead of Winks so that we at least have one player who knows how to position himself when the opposition have the ball.

N'Dombele is a lot better defensively than you appear to think he is. I agree that Dier would be good in there, but there's no need for a traditional holder in that formation - it's one of the main objectives of it in the first place.

 

[rxl]

So frustrating looking at the players we have now to when we were good with 4-2-3-1, We arguable have a better starting XI and certainly many more options from the bench to liven up the front quartet, why is he persisting with the diamond??

 

[scaramanga]

I'm not sure that's true.

2nd goal - Winks and Ndombele are very close together centrally, and it's a brilliant finish.

View attachment 7311

3rd goal - we've switched to 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2, with Winks and Ndombele as the middle pairing (and Son and Sissoko out wide). Aurier loses his man by diving in, and arguably Winks and/or Ddombele don't track back quickly enough to help Toby.


View attachment 7312


4th goal - we're still in 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2. Winks needlessly passes the ball backwards under no pressure. Then Rose gives it back to him, this time he turns straight into trouble and loses the ball, and they score.

View attachment 7314

I'm not a fan of the diamond either, but I think it's increasingly being used as a fall-guy for all of our issues on GG. We weren't even playing it in the second half from what I can see, and yet it still gets blamed! (And in the first half, when we were playing it, we created the better chances).

I'm not convinced that using freeze frames are much use in describing our formations - especially when the ball goes wide and everyone is moving across to cover.

What I do know is that Winks spent a lot of time on his own in the middle through both the first and second halves, and Aurier was pretty much on his own for the whole match too. That didn't happen when we played the way we did a couple of years ago.