He's got no love for the Conservative Party - he makes that very clear.
I'd say his opinions are towards the left of the current Overton Window but, like most people, Corbyn's are far to the left of his.
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
I'd say his opinions are towards the left of the current Overton Window but, like most people, Corbyn's are far to the left of his.
Aah go on
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Almost like you're making it up as you go along. True to the spirit of Brexit I suppose!
It is extremely simple, no developed nation has zero tariffs. You are comparing nations with tariffs to an imagined free trade utopia which doesn't exist! Pie in the sky stuff. Ironically one of/the closest scenerio to free trade, are EU nations that have zero tariff within the customs union! Step away from brexit nonsense, and in trade terms the EU is a pretty remarkable setup - a whole continent has come together to open up to free trade. That would not have been possible without regulations on standards, protecting each EU nations food production etc. The price you pay to allow this free trade.
External tariffs on nations outside the EU protect key national industries like farming or Whisky distiliries in the UK. Wipe them out completely and you wipe out whole industries. We need our farmers, as we found out in WWII. It is also better for the environment that we have local food production.
Re. low tax low regulation economy. To impose such a setup onto the UK would not be a click of the fingers operation. It would take decades, be prone to political changes in parliment...and not happen? You're talking about wiping out the welfare state - not something you could do overnight. Cutting wages - relies on having a pool of cheap labour. We are not Singapore. Singapore's success has everything to do with its proximity to the massive Chinese market, to lots of cheap labour and a (undeveloped) blank slate that could be built in any direction. THe UK doesn't have that. And without access to the largest most affluent market in the EU, would we attract companies into the UK? Sony moving to Amsterdam suggests not. Companies like to have access to the large market it is simple and obvious.
Appreciate you at least putting forward some kind of vision. As basic and unrealistic as it may be, it is more than most can muster.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
From a party that stands up and accuses people of language use this blokes on twitter promoting the fact Boris is being pelted with stuff.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Pelted with what...plastic balls? Another false moral equivalency. Mate this is so lame! Come back when a Tory MP is stabbed in the street.
StephenH
David Ginola
Always found him very helpful and pleasant.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
I'm not comparing it to the stabbing that's you but you can't say "mind your words" but actively encourage this or having people throw milkshakes.
The fact your ok with this regardles and use Jo Cox murder to justify it by compairson is rather mental mate
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Lammy actively incites anger via social media.
He needs to be pulled up on it.
He needs to be pulled up on it.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
'I'm okay with Boris having a few plastic balls thrown at him? ' I couldn't care less. But for you to try to diminish complaints about Johnson's dog whistling to right wing extremists by referencing this...well you can't be too bright now can you. I can reference Cox, because that what the issue is about, a brain dead PM, who will say anything to gain an advantage with no consideration for the consequences. so, I am in no way 'using Cox' but referencing her tragic death to further highlight your tinkle weak false equivalency argument. Not that I had to do that to make you look stupid, as you do a perfectly good job of that on your own.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
You reap what you sow. We might have had Rory Stewart as PM by now, leading a centrist government, if the coup to thwart Brexit wasn't so serious and in control of so much of the apparatus of power.
StephenH
David Ginola
I don't like or dislike the EU, you are consumed by it!
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/chancellor-sajid-javid-vows-to-increase-the-national-living-wage-to-more-than-£10-per-hour-and-to-slash-the-age-threshold-from-25-to-21-as-he-makes-a-general-election-pitch-to-younger-voters/ar-AAI4b59?li=AAnZ9Ug
I need to get myself back up to speed with the jobs market, as I'd say there's a very decent likelihood this'll put my current employer out of business...
I need to get myself back up to speed with the jobs market, as I'd say there's a very decent likelihood this'll put my current employer out of business...
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Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Wow thanks for that.
See this is where I have huge issue, I don't wan't Corbyn to be the PM, far from it but I would have said he deserved more respect than being pelted with plastic balls or anything, I would also say anyone from the Tories applauding it and potentially motivating people was a prick. But the other side of the argument can't do that, no concessions given, its hugely blatent.
Its like this whole falsehood that Corbyn has never done wrong and anything he did was when he was 37 but Boris touching someones knee at a dinner years ago deserves further inspection, its a total hypocrisy.
I read the comments from Jo Cox husband and he actually took exception to both sides of the argument as they politicise her memory.
As for provocative terms, what about the labour party and others that have used provocative terms when mentioning Brexiteers? You don't think Lammy opens himself up with terms like Nazi's or John McDonnell saying "Lynch the bitch" and what about Jess Phillips and he past claims of knifing Corbyn? No? Only Boris that uses provacative terms?
Come on lets at least be balanced on all this.
It would put most out of business.
StephenH
David Ginola
I made that point in my first post, you just didn't read it (again).
The whole world is trending towards tariff free trade, and the EU is shutting the doors and turning inwards.
I'm not claiming 0 tariff trade with everyone (although there will clearly be some), but I am claiming we will have low tariff trade as that's what everyone is aiming at except for the EU.
That's not free. How can having a supranational body control your products and services whether tor not you're selling to them and call it free?
It's the precise opposite of free.
If there are businesses that require propping up through protectionism then they have to adapt or die. I have no interest in slowly dwindling our economy away by tipping more and more into trying to stop the natural rot of the weak.
I think you've missed some of the really basic parts of economics - teaching at that level is way outside of my skillset but I'm happy to point you towards some websites if you like. CIMA certificate level studies should cover the basics of taxation.
It will show you that lowering rates of taxation doesn't tend to reduce the tax take. In fact the recent tax reductions in the UK have served to increase the tax take and boost employment. Reducing regulation has the same effect - more people in work, which has the double benefit of both increasing tax revenue and decreasing the need to spend.
It's far from unrealistic - it's the obvious route for us to take. For centuries the UK has been one of the (if not the) best at working without the strangulation of the nanny state. Don't let a bit of special circumstance, post-war navel gazing from a few people out to ruin all that was great about this country damage that for you.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Er no, the EU is putting in place free trade agreements with the likes of Japan and Canada (recent deals) and has totally free 0 tariff trade with 27 nations! Including some of the most affluent nations on the planet. So what are you talking about?
Yes because the EU has 0 tariff trade across a whole continent (and beyond with arrangements with Turkey etc).
It is important to have standards. Would you prefer chlorinated chicken or steroid beef? How else would you regulate quality across 28 nations without a supranational body? Genuinely confused how you'd do it. The WTO is a "supranational body" but one you like?
Our Whisky producers are strong. It's a big export for the UK. Would you really undermine them with cheap Whisky from India and the US? What advantage is there to the UK in doing that? Great for Indian and American whiskey producers, bad for us.
All countries try to protect their farmers. During WWII we found out we imported so much of our food, there wasn't enough to go round when the Germans cut supply lines. It took years to recover post-war. Since, all EU nations have protected their domestic food production. It also saves on transportation giving people fresher food and releasing less carbon into the atmosphere. Makes perfect sense then to protect farmers. What are you proposing instead? Import crap from the US, and turn UK farms into golf courses and rally tracks?
If only your logic was as confident as your condescension. The idea that such complex flows of money are black or white, is naive. Put tax up - x happens. Lower it, and y results. No. Each scenario is different, will produce different effects. I am all for lower taxation, who isn't? But if it was as easy as you make out, everyone would be cutting taxes and reaping the benefits. Why aren't they!?
Have you been brainwashed by the Torygraph and Spectator? Both owned by the Barclay brothers who only sanction anti-EU articles. Try reading the more balanced Times, Economist or FT. The wonderful thing about money is it has no biases. There is profit and loss. Growth and decline. Agendas don't really count for much. Every economist worth their salt can see that leaving the EU - on whatever terms - will be negative for the UK. That is the issue. Pinning your hopes on a vague, un-thought out Singapore model, really shows the simplicity and desperation of Tory leavers. The rationale of Brexit made perfect sense - we're proud, we're independent, we're able. "Let us free". But this really is rhetoric. The reality is that the EU enables free trade, that is why Thatcher signed up. Impeding free trade and trying to impose Singapore on the UK is desperate talk from desperate men.
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Look at it this way. If the EU is all about free trade with.those outside, what's the problem with leaving?
And an entire stack of regulatory overreach.
I'll ask again, because you haven't ever answered this one; Why should the EU have any say on the make up of a product or service I sell to Dubai?
Firstly, no it's not - people don't need a government to choose for them.
Secondly, if we accept the flawed premise that we need a nanny state, why do we need the EU to do it for us?
I wouldn't buy either any more than I'd buy sportswear or a Ford, but I don't plan on banning them.
I wouldn't. What a fudging stupid idea that is.
Why the hell would anyone want to regulate across a load of nations. Imagine the EU was just the trading bloc we joined - would you suggest this nonsense then? You'd be rightly laughed out of the room if you did.
The WTO is reducing the size of government overreach. Any organisation that works towards a smaller government is based on good principles.
If they can make whiskey better and cheaper than we can (they can't) then they absolutely deserve to take that trade from us.
At what point have I ever made a single suggestion or comment that makes you think I'm foolish enough to believe in propping up markets that can't survive by themselves? It's an entirely preposterous solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
I don't care if the farms survive or fail. Just about the only thing I care less about is what is done with the land if they do fail.
If you're concerned about food production during wartime, the simple answer is to have a nuclear deterrent and then it's no longer a problem.
You're right in saying that tax calculations aren't that simple, which is precisely why your suggestion that lowering tax would destroy the welfare state (I'll leave the fact that that's not a bad result for another discussion) entirely baseless.
What we can do, is use the best evidence available to us and that's the effect of the most recent tax cuts and the most recent regulation cuts. Both have resulted in improved tax takes and increased employment.
I think you've missed the point again.
The part of my post you quoted was in relation to a welfare state built in the post war era. We're in an entirely different situation now and no longer need such a millstone around our necks. The EU is just more waste piled on top of what we already had.
We need to extricate ourselves from the EU to get back to what was great, but it wasn't the EU that caused it - we did that damage to ourselves when we were floundering about after WWII and took the easy but wrong answer.