Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[ricky2tricky4city]

If one of the prevailing theories is that the squad needs a major overhaul and investment (which I don't agree with), surely that opens up the question of who should be overseeing and spending said funds.

Our squad isn't old, if we're going to need changing up once players get over 26, I don't see how that method is any more sustainable and likely to bring in trophies than an experienced winner coming in and buying ready made players.

At some point now or in the future the manger is going to have to manage what is available to him and get the best out of them.

I don't think it needs a major overhaul, the defence (like Liverpool had) is a major job though in the next season.

Funny thing is if we could settle Jan/Toby down it might smooth that transition out over 2/3 seasons?

 

[SylDave]

Or maybe he needs to be bold (as he has in the past) and sideline them, focusing on the players he has that really are on board?

I can accept he is an emotional sort, I think thats clear. I find it hard to accept he lets it effect his performance so badly though.

Question is though, was he sidelining them because they were not committed, or was it his heart ruling his head and a emotional decision where because they were not signing the contract he took it too personally froze them out and ended up inadvertently causing more issues and their disenchantment.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Or maybe he needs to be bold (as he has in the past) and sideline them, focusing on the players he has that really are on board?

I can accept he is an emotional sort, I think thats clear. I find it hard to accept he lets it effect his performance so badly though.

But as I said earlier....if he sidelined the four mentioned, He'd be pilloried. Just the Jan thing has caused enough hoo haa.

 

[SteveAWOL]

No it doesn't. If the accuracy is 30cm, and he's 31cm offside, he's definitely at least 1cm offside. Anything else, the equipment isn't accurate enough, and a judgement can't be made - everyone will just have to accept that. There will be no argument when a VAR screenshot shows someone 31cm offside.

You’ll be relieved to hear that VAR is slightly less inaccurate than that... seems to be a tolerance of 13 to 19cm depending upon which player’s speed is being used in the calculation...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Question is though, was he sidelining them because they were not committed, or was it his heart ruling his head and a emotional decision where because they were not signing the contract he took it too personally froze them out and ended up inadvertently causing more issues and their disenchantment.

Maybe he does have a weakness here, he's like the jilted lover if anything negative or detrimental to 'the team/project' is acted out or spoken.

The Andros thing, the Walker thing, the Toby thing etc. He does appear black and white in these scenarios rather than thinking what's best for the greater good.

And right now he has 3/4/5 of these going on at once......and it's doing his nut in

 

[Lemonade Money]

You’ll be relieved to hear that VAR is slightly less inaccurate than that... seems to be a tolerance of 13 to 19cm depending upon which player’s speed is being used in the calculation...

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No it doesn't. If the accuracy is 20cm, and he's 21cm offside, he's definitely at least 1cm offside. Anything else, the equipment isn't accurate enough, and a judgement can't be made - everyone will just have to accept that. There will be no argument when a VAR screenshot shows someone 21cm offside.

 

[Moby]

Well my mates an agent and has given me some pretty decent intel on Spurs which has a few times been proven spot on.

What I don't do is go "well Poch said this and he played like that so it must mean A"

Loads of 2 + 2 = 20

Where are you hearing the issues are Grays?

Presuming Eriksen, Toby and Jan have clubbed together and the info is obvious and pretty much in the public domain.

Wondering it also included players like Rose, Aurier, Wanyama (who were mooted to exit as well) plus any others?

Be interesting to know how deep this is?

 

[Benny_Lad]

That still doesn't work. No matter where you set that limit, 0, 30, 5000 cm, there will always be a case where the player is one cm either side of that boundary and the same arguments persist.

I honestly think the only way to go is similar to goal line technology. Every player wear a chip in that thing they all wear round their chests and all measurements are taken from that. Yes you might have legs offside but if we set a scientific barometer that everyone plays to then it’s the same for everyone.

Something can then surely be synced up to know when the ball is no longer in contact with the passers foot.

My problem with Saturday was how they knew exactly where to draw the line on Son’s shoulder (to capture the first bit that can legally score). It’s too manual.

 

[Raziel]

But as I said earlier....if he sidelined the four mentioned, He'd be pilloried. Just the Jan thing has caused enough hoo haa.

As he should be, you can't just sideline 4 very good players because you don't believe they will be here in 6-12 months.

I think what people are being to question is, does Poch fall out because people don't buy into his philosophy vs. they are not delivering on the pitch? because that's a dangerous line.

 

[wiziwig]

The players have checked out on the club not Poch, he is left with players that don't want to be at Spurs and players he does not want, that's a fact.

I know 400% that the players who are winding down their contract (I told people Toby would stay and got panned) these players feel disillusioned because they feel their contribution to Spurs and the success including the commercial success in which their images have been used, in which their performances have given us top 4 every year which has lead to the money and commercial success and record incomes, they feel they deserve/deserved a larger slice of the pie financially.

Eriksen, Toby and Jan feel they have been a major factor on the Spurs you see now and feel they have not been treated fairly.

The others like Wanyama etc, Poch does not want them anymore but he is stuck with them.

I feel what you've stated here is correct ...Players such as Toby, Jan, Eriksen, and I'd throw in Rose - all feel that they have not been rewarded for their contributions to the top four finishes which have contributed to the financial gains made by the club..

By all accounts, they have seen new players come into the club being paid higher wages - players such as Sissoko and Aurier on higher wages than Eriksen and Rose, respectively.

Players also talk to players at other clubs, and for all the disparaging by some of our fans of other clubs - players at the likes of West Ham, Leicester, Everton & Wolves are earning more than some of our players in their respective positions...

Sure, nany of Poch's current woes are on him but as far as I'm concerned, Levy is not entirely blameless here.

 

[wiziwig]

Again, have to disagree.

- Nobody came for Toby, simple as that, or more simply, nobody came that he was interested in going to.
- Jan is a Poch created problem, Jan has never wanted to leave, never wanted more money (so not sure where this "not treated fairly" view comes from. He has repeatedly said he will like to play for Spurs until his legs goes.

The player checked out on club theory is broken by Jan, the problem with Jan is Poch not the club, just go back to the bs about him not being picked because fo fitness and Jan's public responses

The big worry here is Toby, Jan, Rose, Eriksen don't believe in Poch's vision anymore or his ability to take us up another level, easy to write those guys off as greedy players who want a bigger slice, but none of them have that history.

I don't see where @Grays_1890 stated that these players were being greedy...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Question is though, was he sidelining them because they were not committed, or was it his heart ruling his head and a emotional decision where because they were not signing the contract he took it too personally froze them out and ended up inadvertently causing more issues and their disenchantment.

Who knows? Chances are we will never know. What would like to believe (and currently dont) is that he is/isnt using players because its for the greater good of the team/performances/results.

But as I said earlier....if he sidelined the four mentioned, He'd be pilloried. Just the Jan thing has caused enough hoo haa.

I dont know if you saw, but yesterday I was talking a lot about direction of travel. I genuinely believe people will take bricky performances and results if they can see they are steps to a greater good, and see what is being worked towards. If the system/style/ethos is being developed clearly, people will take it.

This is the key missing ingredient for me right now.

If, for example, Poch were to say "Vertonghen is not committed, Ive no faith in him, so Im going to use Tanganga who I believe has the right attitude and is the future...", I really dont think he'd be pilloried at all. I think people would respect the executive decision, commitment to the vision, the plan in place...

And thats really just illustrative, Im not saying he should sack of Vertonghen. I actually dont think Verts is one of the problem players.

 

[Benny_Lad]

The team for Saturday has to be his 11 most committed players. It won’t be dissimilar to to the Leicester game which we were probably 1cm from winning.

 

[fernadez]

The team for Saturday has to be his 11 most committed players. It won’t be dissimilar to to the Leicester game which we were probably 1cm from winning.

As much as Sissoko and Lamela divide opinion. If the rest were as driven we'd be fine.

 

[Grays_1890]

Where are you hearing the issues are Grays?

Presuming Eriksen, Toby and Jan have clubbed together and the info is obvious and pretty much in the public domain.

Wondering it also included players like Rose, Aurier, Wanyama (who were mooted to exit as well) plus any others?

Be interesting to know how deep this is?

I have no idea if they have clubbed together all I know is what I have been told. Spurs current house of profit of the new stadium has been built by Levy but has been built on a platform of consistent qualification in the CL and club that is perceived to be on the up and has made a fortune commercially from the success. Kane was rewarded for his contribution and the others according to my source feel they deserved better terms. They feel they have been effective contributors to the success that you see Spurs in now successfully. Toby's figure was on the table for a long time and the club were not prepared to match it.

They feel they deserve a bigger percentage of the pie of which they feel they contributed towards making.

Ndombele coming in on £175,000 a week has not helped especially in Jans case.

 

[Grays_1890]

I don't see where @Grays_1890 stated that these players were being greedy...

I never said greed, they want what they feel they are entitled to for want of a better word.

 

[Grays_1890]

I feel what you've stated here is correct ...Players such as Toby, Jan, Eriksen, and I'd throw in Rose - all feel that they have not been rewarded for their contributions to the top four finishes which have contributed to the financial gains made by the club..

By all accounts, they have seen new players come into the club being paid higher wages - players such as Sissoko and Aurier on higher wages than Eriksen and Rose, respectively.

Players also talk to players at other clubs, and for all the disparaging by some of our fans of other clubs - players at the likes of West Ham, Leicester, Everton & Wolves are earning more than some of our players in their respective positions...

Sure, nany of Poch's current woes are on him but as far as I'm concerned, Levy is not entirely blameless here.

Players talk, its a changing room mentality.

Ultimately the club has 3/4 players that are now in their next move mentally and 3/4 that Poch does not fancy, the club itself left players home to find new clubs, thats not materialised.

I would envisage thats why Poch wants the window because he thrives on harmony

 

[Mikey10]

Watching him on the sidelines last night, Poch looked like a man who is burnt out. I think his methods might have burnt the players out. I also think that 5 or 6 years is the most any manager can expect to stay at a top club nowadays; for all sorts of reasons, including mental exhaustion, increased player power, and the relentless nature of the modern game. We won't see another Fergie or Wenger.

It could just be as simple as everyone needing a change.

 

[Grays_1890]

Sure, nany of Poch's current woes are on him but as far as I'm concerned, Levy is not entirely blameless here.

At the end of the day its the end of a cycle, the changes probably are needed to some extent, you don't bring in a new manager and all of a sudden they fancy Wanyama and Co and Eriksen, Toby and Jan sign a new contract which if people above are to be believed would be the case.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I have no idea if they have clubbed together all I know is what I have been told. Spurs current house of profit of the new stadium has been built by Levy but has been built on a platform of consistent qualification in the CL and club that is perceived to be on the up and has made a fortune commercially from the success. Kane was rewarded for his contribution and the others according to my source feel they deserved better terms. They feel they have been effective contributors to the success that you see Spurs in now successfully. Toby's figure was on the table for a long time and the club were not prepared to match it.

They feel they deserve a bigger percentage of the pie of which they feel they contributed towards making.

Ndombele coming in on £175,000 a week has not helped especially in Jans case.

In the case of Toby and Eriksen they’ve had pretty much double your money contracts on the table for 2 years now, they’ve chosen not to sign them thinking they were coverted, as it turns out they weren’t as popular as they thought, hardly the clubs fault.

Why would Jan be upset that a 22 year old, one of the hottest prospects in Europe, is getting 175k? Surely he wouldn’t expect that at the ripe old age of 32?

Everything you’ve said makes me think the players you’ve mentioned need to get in the real world! I feel far from sorry for them!