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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Armchair Expert said:
We have no identity. Clearly.

I think Poch was dealt a difficult hand with not transfers for two seasons. Those chickens are coming home to roost. Its quite disappointing that after 4 years in the champions league we haven't progressed as a team. It's particularly tough to stomach when you look at what Klopp has done for Liverpool in a shorter time frame. With a bit of investment, who knows what might have happened. I think now we are in a downward spiral that Poch won't arrest. Just my opinion.

I think half the problem here is his constant whinging. If you are going to constantly talk about leaving then you need to be getting some quality results and play some good football. The truth is, no one on here knows what our tactics are or what we are trying to achieve. Pretty damning. The only things we do know is that Alli is now crap, and Kane doesn't play as a striker anymore. Neither of those two developments recommend an outstanding manager to me.

The problem is, we are not as attractive to prospective managers as we might have been in the summer. There is a pretty big rebuilding job required, and I'm not sure the funds will be there to do it.

I think a split would be best for both parties, not a sacking, but a genuine, mutual agreement that this isn't working anymore. I think if that does come to pass - as it should imo - we would look back at Poch's time with mixed feelings. We had a great squad, but didn't win anything. We were constantly told we should be grateful, that we aren't good enough, that we can't compete. It's all very Harry Redknapp: we had Bale, Modric, VdV, Adebayor etc. Yet we were always told we aren't good enough and should be grateful.

Spurs fans aren't ungrateful, our expectations are SO LOW that managers get an absolute free ride. We don't recognise an outstanding side when we see one. I think we should have higher standards and demand more. Instead, we seem to make excuses for coaches who can't win with outstanding squads. Criticise Levy's spending all we like, but he has assembled sides that should have been winning. I'm also concerned that having overlooked trophies, that we aren't cemented as a big player in the way we should be.

We should give Massimo Allegri a ring and see if he's getting bored.
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Brilliant post mate. Sums up how I’m feeling.
 
Legohamster said:
Why would you ignore last seasons form?

You quote a game changing VAR for a reason we lost too Leicester, but not for getting a point at city.
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The difference was as I’ve had to remind people VAR was 100% right vs city. The ball hit his hand didn’t it?
Var yesterday wasn’t 100% to over turn the lino as he was offside by 13mms but the system can be out by as much as 14 CMs.... so a 1000% variable
People talk like we have had luck with VAR but all we have had is the right decisions before yesterday (although it’s possible that kanes penalty vs Chelsea last season wouldn’t count with that margin of error as VAR could have been wrong then like Chelsea highlighted at the time)
And last season is last season. Different team, different league
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The difference was as I’ve had to remind people VAR was 400% right vs city. The ball hit his hand didn’t it?
Var yesterday wasn’t 400% to over turn the lino as he was offside by 13mms but the system can be out by as much as 14 CMs.... so a 1000% variable
People talk like we have had luck with VAR but all we have had is the right decisions before yesterday (although it’s possible that kanes penalty vs Chelsea last season wouldn’t count with that margin of error as VAR could have been wrong then like Chelsea highlighted at the time)
And last season is last season. Different team, different league
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Problem is though, its exactly the same team, in the same league, with the same problems.

If you're underperforming at work for 6 months and the calendar rolls round from December to January, why would the previous 5 months' worth of poor performances be written off due to an arbitrary change such as the date?

These problems have been around - I'd argue - for three seasons. We have lacked identity since moving to Wembley and starting there with three at the back. It didn't work, the football was turgid, we've chopped and changed the formation, line-up, "tactics" ever since, and we've never looked right or fluid since. Certainly not for extended periods.

We're going backwards, and the not over a period of 5-6 games, but 5-6 months. I argue 2-3 seasons. The aggravating issue is that the selections are getting worse, the subs are getting worse, the noises in the press are getting more and more unpalatable, and we look further away from finding solutions.

A natural end would've been the summer. Poch's comments pre-CL final were, frankly, a scandal. And he isn't getting any better since. Before the CL match vs Olympiacos we have Lloris sounding the surrender, saying we aren't good enough and not equipped to with it. I'm getting thoroughly sick of it. It comes from the top and it isn't right.
 
This Mourinho stuff is a weird red herring and irrelevant to the argument. We’ll always have a manager who believes in Levynomics and developing youth. If the current malaise continues or worsens, it’s unlikely to be Poch in 20/21, but he’s definitely earned the rest of the season to show he can turn things around. Who the replacement would be depends on their stock in ten months, and whether they would be any good is a crapshoot: recruitment is always risky, wherever you are. But if there’s anyone mad enough to think that we’d ever recruit Mourinho, direct them to Betfair and lay your house on it.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The difference was as I’ve had to remind people VAR was 400% right vs city. The ball hit his hand didn’t it?
Var yesterday wasn’t 400% to over turn the lino as he was offside by 13mms but the system can be out by as much as 14 CMs.... so a 1000% variable
People talk like we have had luck with VAR but all we have had is the right decisions before yesterday (although it’s possible that kanes penalty vs Chelsea last season wouldn’t count with that margin of error as VAR could have been wrong then like Chelsea highlighted at the time)
And last season is last season. Different team, different league
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He was offside in the current set up, you can’t pick and choose which VAR decisions you want.

Which makes the form even more worrying and the same mistakes we are making more of a concern.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
This Mourinho stuff is a weird red herring and irrelevant to the argument. We’ll always have a manager who believes in Levynomics and developing youth. If the current malaise continues or worsens, it’s unlikely to be Poch in 20/21, but he’s definitely earned the rest of the season to show he can turn things around. Who the replacement would be depends on their stock in ten months, and whether they would be any good is a crapshoot: recruitment is always risky, wherever you are. But if there’s anyone mad enough to think that we’d ever recruit Mourinho, direct them to Betfair and lay your house on it.
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Or, we could appoint a manager who is used to working with experienced players with opinions and who hold sway in the dressing room.

Our experienced and settled backline would be gold dust for someone like Allegri. Surely he is someone who knows how to manage the decline, or ageing, of experienced and influential players. Would we benefit from appointing someone who doesn't need to work with wide-eyed kids willing to flog themselves to death to get results? Someone with nous and developed man-management skills?

All the top teams get every lost drop out of experienced veterans. Ferguson did, Allegri has, Mourinho has. How old is Simeone's back line at Atletico? Why can't we do the same? Our defenders should be an asset, not an anchor around our necks.
 
Legohamster said:
He was offside in the current set up, you can’t pick and choose which VAR decisions you want.

Which makes the form even more worrying and the same mistakes we are making more of a concern.
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Yeah he is offside according to a video system that clearly isn’t fit for purpose

That’s the issue

If the margin of error was 1/2% then great... it’s about 20% of a human or a shoulder ... see the issue?
 
Some interesting thoughts and ideas in this thread, but definitely premature to actually go ahead and sack him.

No harm talking about it though as its on the basis that what we are seeing continues for at least a few more months.

I sincerely hope it doesnt go on for that long and still firmly believe and expect poch to see the error of his ways and turn this around.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No
Because the rules are he is onside if he is level
The technology doesn’t prove he isn’t level as the technology can’t due to its huge margin of error.
It would be thrown out in court for example and be deemed inadmissible
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The tech we currently have shows him as off side.

So you want VAR only when it suits us? Eg Emirates Marketing Project

Can’t have it both ways.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No
Because the rules are he is onside if he is level
The technology doesn’t prove he isn’t level as the technology can’t due to its huge margin of error.
It would be thrown out in court for example and be deemed inadmissible
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I agree...although the same argument could possibly be made about Aguero being offside in the build up to Sterling’s disallowed goal in the CL QF.
 
Legohamster said:
The tech we currently have shows him as off side.

So you want VAR only when it suits us? Eg Emirates Marketing Project

Can’t have it both ways.
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No I want Var to make calls that it can and not calls that it can’t until it’s capable

It’s got all the handball decisions right hasn’t it I think. The rule change is the issue there

For offside the rule hasn’t changed just they have implemented some technology to help that is flawed

It’s like using a golf GTI in formula 1. It’s fit for purpose to a point and will do a job but actually it seems not right and shouldn’t be there
 
Mikey10 said:
I agree...although the same argument could possibly be made about Aguero being offside in the build up to Sterling’s disallowed goal in the CL QF.
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Agree although again there was clear space in that situation

There is any easy fix...
If the lines overlap then it’s deemed level
I assume the line has a certain thickness of say 10 cms and any overlap can be the tolerance the system can’t factor in
 
Legohamster said:
The tech we currently have shows him as off side.

So you want VAR only when it suits us? Eg Emirates Marketing Project

Can’t have it both ways.
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I think he’s right on this and like john barnes said the law is wrong.

The law should have in it a margin of error due to the frames issue with the technology.

It is a joke that an effectively faulty system isnt being accounted for in those decisions, whilst at the same time it seemingly requires var to detect a defender pulling out a pocket knife and stabbing an attacker in order for a non penalty call to be overturned.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No I want Var to make calls that it can and not calls that it can’t until it’s capable

It’s got all the handball decisions right hasn’t it I think. The rule change is the issue there

For offside the rule hasn’t changed just they have implemented some technology to help that is flawed

It’s like using a golf GTI in formula 1. It’s fit for purpose to a point and will do a job but actually it seems not right and shouldn’t be there
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No system is going to be flawless, it’s impossible.

I hate VAR btw - give me an honest mistake over 6 minutes to assess something any day
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
I think he’s right on this and like john barnes said the law is wrong.

The law should have in it a margin of error due to the frames issue with the technology.

It is a joke that an effectively faulty system isnt being accounted for in those decisions, whilst at the same time it seemingly requires var to detect a defender pulling out a pocket knife and stabbing an attacker in order for a non penalty call to be overturned.
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Why are we changing laws for tech?

Tis a joke.
 
Legohamster said:
No system is going to be flawless, it’s impossible.

I hate VAR btw - give me an honest mistake over 6 minutes to assess something any day
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No system can be flawless but you can’t instigate a system with such a large error.. it’s 20% out (that’s me guessing the size of an average person). That’s farcical

An I’m ok with VAr in principle
The issue is it has to be definitive and it really can’t be. It’s why their have been so many arguments about it
Their not using it for what it’s good at (video replays of missed infringements)
 
Legohamster said:
Why are we changing laws for tech?

Tis a joke.
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We’re not, we are changing the laws directly associated with applying that tech because it is effectively faulty.

It cannot be trusted in certain scenarios due to the fames issue, so if its to be used it must have a tolerance directly associated with where it is faulty imo.
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
I think he’s right on this and like john barnes said the law is wrong.

The law should have in it a margin of error due to the frames issue with the technology.

It is a joke that an effectively faulty system isnt being accounted for in those decisions, whilst at the same time it seemingly requires var to detect a defender pulling out a pocket knife and stabbing an attacker in order for a non penalty call to be overturned.
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When I worked in aerospace If we had designed plane engines with 20% tolerance most planes would fall out of the sky due to engine failures
 
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