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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

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I doubt very much that the EU are squirming. Just more irritated. I will see if this "new way" of negotiating illicits better results or just takes the country over the cliff edge. So far the signs are not good.
The problem with complaining about 'the approach 'is you have to have the 'alternative' approach nailed down and thought out so as the complainant, you're worth listening to.

Corbyn 'its about time Boris started having a serious conversation'.....well guide us to what that conversation looks like Jezza. I'm not saying Boris is right but in the analysis post May what are the realistic options. The threat of 'no deal' is the only card that may get leverage, the EU are super cosy walking over us. Why not push them into Levy time as the default fall back is to remain (as the current WA is dead).
 
Logic dictates there are only 2 completely fair immigration systems. Brexit is proposing one of them. Why is that disingenuous?

If it is employed correctly it negates the discrimatory and racial undertones you're suggesting.

What is "fair" for Brits though? Isn't that a consideration at all?
 
What is "fair" for Brits though? Isn't that a consideration at all?
That is a different question. Probably the fair answer is to be subject to the same system as we decide to employ.

In reality countries now have a variety of immigration systems across the world.

If you're talking of existing Brits in the EU, I'm sure a cut-off date will be agreed with existing settlers able to remain as they are.
 
That is a different question. Probably the fair answer is to be subject to the same system as we decide to employ.

In reality countries now have a variety of immigration systems across the world.

If you're talking of existing Brits in the EU, I'm sure a cut-off date will be agreed with existing settlers able to remain as they are.

Which is what we have now is it not? Okay we don't apply the freedom Brits have to travel to India etc. back to people from India. But you are not suggesting that changes so it is fair to Indians etc are you?

I was talking about designing an immigration system that is not 'fair' to immigrants, but works for Britian. Isn't that what people want? Morally people in Africa probably deserve better. Are we going to fix that with our immigration system? No course not. So all this chat about a fair system is rubbish. Moreover it doesn't fit with what Brits actually want. But to pretent Brexit offers a solution to immigration is quite funny. Because it will likley deliver the opposite of what people say they want. If its not clear....

1. We need immigrant labour - the non-skilled hard building work, picking fruit, cleaning up old people in the NHS. Without imigrant labour we would all be paying more taxes to pay more for nursing, builders, fruit etc etc

2. It is clear, Brits prefer EU migrants rather than those from further a field.

3. There is no immigration system that is "fair" to immigrants. That is a misnomer. It is only about what the UK requires. Any pretence that we're looking out for the worlds poor or whatever is a nonsense.

So will Brexit deliver on immigration? You decide.
 
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if the EU did not have anything to lose there would be no negotiations.

No negotiations is what we have isn't it? o_O Everyone wants free trade. So everyone wants a deal. The idea that all is equal between the UK and EU is not true tho. The idea that it's them against us is also rubbish. The EU was built out of the ashes of war. To encourge people to trade not fight.

Your image of 'them' is wierd. The EU is a trading block at heart. All the emotional stuff about making them squirm indicates how wide of the mark you are on what the EU is and what it does. It's all emotion and no reality.
 
Which is what we have now is it not? Okay we don't apply the freedom Brits have to travel to India etc. back to people from India. But you are not suggesting that changes so it is fair to Indians etc are you?

I was talking about designing an immigration system that is not 'fair' to immigrants, but works for Britian. Isn't that what people want? Morally people in Africa probably deserve better. Are we going to fix that with our immigration system? No course not. So all this chat about a fair system is rubbish. Moreover it doesn't fit with what Brits actually want. But to pretent Brexit offers a solution to immigration is quite funny. Because it will likley deliver the opposite of what people say they want. If its not clear....

1. We need immigrant labour - the non-skilled hard building work, picking fruit, cleaning up old people in the NHS. Without imigrant labour we would all be paying more taxes to pay more for nursing, builders, fruit etc etc

2. It is clear, Brits prefer EU migrants rather than those from further a field.

3. There is no immigration system that is "fair" to immigrants. That is a misnomer. It is only about what the UK requires. Any pretence that we're looking out for the worlds poor or whatever is a nonsense.

So will Brexit deliver on immigration? You decide.
You love a straw man.:D

Logic dictates (yes I am repeating myself) that there are two fair systems, regardless of the film flam you want to attach to it or emotional doo doo.

1. Everyone from anywhere can come to the UK and work and settle here as they wish with no controls.

2. Everyone from anywhere can come to the UK and be checked, screened, and apply to live and work here based on (probably) some points system.

They are both fair because they are all inclusive and non discriminatory.

What other countries want to do about immigration is up to them.
 
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