Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Best set of tools that you can afford though
The very best piano players don’t necessarily play the most expensive pianos
And you were taking about last seasons expenditure originally
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Paulo Dybala
- Thread starter Daisuk
- Start date
Best set of tools that you can afford though
The very best piano players don’t necessarily play the most expensive pianos
And you were taking about last seasons expenditure originally
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Mmhmm. Because in the end, the market does roughly value players at what they're worth. Good players cost money. The best players cost a lot more. The price you pay for a player factors in the likelihood of him being good for your side.
In this case, it's expensive, and we're not really doing it after a promising start.
I don't know how many more ways I can say this, but spending *150M* net while outside the top four, in the Europa League, is spending bloody freely. From a goddamn tinpot washed-up side in the Europa League, to boot.
It's a level of bloody going for it, that.
They are spending large amounts now - by this argument, City never spend a lot, Chelsea never spend a lot, United never spend a lot, because on average, every season they only pay about 25-40m in outgoing fees. What does it matter if it's down the line for enormous overall fees? Apparently they're prudent and cheap, because they only spend 40m on outgoing fees a season.
By that yardstick, Real's purchase of Bale was a cheap, unambitious move because they only paid us 15-odd million a season for him.
Excellent attack + more excellent attackers = no improvement. That doesn't seem right to me.
They will add another defender. This year. That left-back from Celtic. I don't think they're done yet.
I don't doubt they will find some way to spend on what they need. They spent tons net last year on Torreira, Leno and Sokratis (no doubt on long-term payment deals) despite being in the EL, and are doing it again this year despite still being in the EL. Given that, they will probably do it again next summer.
By contrast, we spent 18 months sitting on our hands, went out and bought NDombele, and are now haggling over 5/10m for Lo Celso, by all accounts - trying to play whatever games we can to lower the price. And we haven't gone anywhere with Sessegnon, either. In between, we got to a CL final, earning 120m in revenue, but that only seems to have been enough to get NDombele over the line. The disparity is striking.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Last season wasn't much different - the man had given us three seasons in the CL, a title challenge, a 2nd place finish and two 3rd place finishes, all on an absolute shoestring while the profits rolled in.
He deserves the best. If Levy gives a crap about the footballing side of his investment, he needs to give Poch the best. Last season, this season, same f*cking thing.
We aren't Europa League chancers scrabbling for Stambouli, Fazio, Saha, Nelsen and all the other transfers Levy takes an eternity for and likes to work with - low cost, low risk. We can afford better. We could even last season.
We are where we are, and I put that down 100% to Poch - he is the man who has changed us. I believe in him, and it's painful to see him this way because of our self-destructive miserliness sometimes.
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
Its very interesting and imaginative what their doing. Does feel a little like how leeds gambled, loaning brick loads from the bank to spend on players, hoping to routinely get CL.
Sadly if it goes wrong the consequences wont be as severe!
The Pepe one is interesting, maybe lille have offered to take it all in instalments to get a larger overall fee. For example maybe he would normally be something like 58m plus 9m in add-ons, but they feel 75m in instalments is achievable and not detrimental to them because their likely to just bank it anyway, so why not get more even if it takes longer.
So what is their outlay looking like? 17m loan fee ceballos, 16m first pepe fee, 6m martinelli, 15m upfront fee tierney and anything paid yet for saliba?
Its an interesting gamble but failure to qualify for the CL again and left with another 45m budget, will presumably be mainly eaten up before they even begin next summer due to having to make the next payments on all these transfers?
Sadly if it goes wrong the consequences wont be as severe!
The Pepe one is interesting, maybe lille have offered to take it all in instalments to get a larger overall fee. For example maybe he would normally be something like 58m plus 9m in add-ons, but they feel 75m in instalments is achievable and not detrimental to them because their likely to just bank it anyway, so why not get more even if it takes longer.
So what is their outlay looking like? 17m loan fee ceballos, 16m first pepe fee, 6m martinelli, 15m upfront fee tierney and anything paid yet for saliba?
Its an interesting gamble but failure to qualify for the CL again and left with another 45m budget, will presumably be mainly eaten up before they even begin next summer due to having to make the next payments on all these transfers?
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Don’t disagree with any of your comments around Poch. The guy is brilliant
But I still say you can’t buy something you can’t afford
Similarly you can only sell if someone wants to buy
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
That’s how I see it and I know my arse mates agree
But it a gamble that if they didn’t take who knows what could happen
Still think it’s odd to address areas of strength rather weakness
AjaxDeSuperYids
Drama queen
I think its only because there are no defenders of remotely the same quality as ceballos and pepe that they can get on the ultra staggered payment plan.
The pepe one being almost too good to be true for a player of his apparent quality.
Plus attacking players like ozil, mikhitarian and aubaeyang are ageing and the likes of iwobi are terrible.
They may have to find a good defender that a club want 30m plus 8m in add-ons for and say ‘‘we will give you 50m if we can pay over 10 years’’ for example.
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
Pepe really could be anything
Only thing I’ll add is why did no big club want him and why was he hawked around so much...
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
that Pepe fee seems like they’ve paid twice as much for a player just so they can pay on the never never.
Like buying out of the Littlewoods catalogue
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that they are making the same mistake as United over the last few seasons. Making statement signings to appease disgruntled fans rather than address the weaknesses in the squad.
Bedfordspurs
Martin Peters
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
Lol
Mosquito_Coasting
Jonathan Woodgate
That would be awesome. 10/10.
Gazza
Nick Barmby
Clearly a plot of telling United that they will have to pay him lots for him not to join Tottenham
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Except it doesnt. Do I really need to list the number of expensive buys that flopped completely? Point out that our best players were cheap? Point out the canny buys made elsewhere that were absolute bargains? Or even the complicating factors like length of contract etc? (Eriksen is currently half price...)
While a really basic "More money = better player" logic is all nice and tidy, its just not actually true.
Says who? Why? Why cant we be looking for value?
And this whole thing is precipitated upon people having no patience at all and crying about our lack of ambition and business. What happened to waiting to see what actually happens before judging?
I saw a report a few weeks back that said Liverpool werent in for any business this summer because they spent the budget last. Beginning to ring true at this point. Essentially they mortgaged this years budget on winning the league.
With Arsenal stacking up payment plans one on top of the other this season - my view is they are basically doing similar. Spending on the credit card and paying it off later. And not in a "Well every club pays installments" way - as Bedford pointed out - if they dont make CL* then its £45m again next year, most of which will go on buys they made this year.
Its not spending freely. Spending freely suggests you have money to spend. And if they really were spending freely they would have pushed on and got Zaha, not taken the budget option...
You seem to be wowed by them being, frankly, reckless.
And its not even as if they buys they are making transform them into contenders.
*I really dont think they will
Its not about 25m a season each. Its not about comparing club to club in such a basic way. Its about individual clubs and what they can afford, what is prudent, what is reckless?
And while its impossible to categorically verify, it seems many clubs are demanding more up front than ever from Premier League buyers. I wouldnt be at all surprised to find out we have already put that £40m down on NDombele, for example. Not all deals are straight instalments at all, theres a balance to them.
They havent spent a large amount now, they have promised to hand over a large amount in the future. And while you seem impressed by this (I really dont know why) you seem to miss the connection that that large amount is on players that dont actually improve their side - which should be the sole point of the window.
I dont care for billy big gonad*s massive money signings, I care for the team being improved.
How have they improved? Depth - yes Ill give you that (though this is based on the idea Pepe actually delivers). But in terms of team performance they have gone from an excellent attack to an excellent attack. And still have all the glaring weakness they had before. I dont see how you can view it as having improved. If they bought a couple of CBs (for now) and a proper midfield then Id be more concerned.
They havent yet. And they have been struggling to do so. I believe Celtic want £25m, and free spending Arsenal cant seem to match it...
As it stands, with the Koscielny situation, their defence is even worse than it was last year. Which was already terrible.
Your desperation to see the money being thrown around is blinding you.
Arsenal are not doing good business. They didnt last year and they havent so far this. Their team is getting worse and not better, but because you have this notion they are throwing cash around and "showing ambition" you want us to follow their lead?
Lets forget the £1bn stadium we finished literally 3 months ago. Forget about that, because we need to spend like Arsenal!
Lets forget that we bought one of the most coveted midfielders in europe, a player PERFECT for our team, improving it in the process, that smashed our transfer record. The exact sort of thing you are pining for. Forget that, its gone now - WE MUST DO IT AGAIN! SPEND ALL THE MONEY!
Despite popular belief, and despite the improvement we have made, while we can spend "more" (and we have) we cant just go and blow money like the richest teams. Our stadium is yet to start paying us back. And we cant simply spend freely when we are a self sufficient enterprise.
We have a team now, today, that is more than good enough to start the season.
I am very comfortable waiting until then to see what business we actually do. If Lo Celso comes in later than is ideal, so be it, especially if that haggling enables us to move on more players in addition to him as well.
It strikes me as really strange that before the window is shut people are having whinges and tantrums about these things as if we dont have a side ready for the season already.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Dybala is not fully convinced that an exit from Juventus is in his best interests, despite his fall from grace last term; a move to United would also see him drop out of the Champions League.
But on Thursday, he will be given a clearer picture of his future.
The 25-year-old elected to return to Turin on Wednesday, flying back from Buenos Aires despite still having five days holiday left.
Dybala is keen to meet Maurizio Sarri, the new Juventus boss, for the first time and to discuss the ex-Chelsea chief’s plans for Juve and the Argentine. He will do that when he arrives at training and for fitness tests at the J Medical Centre.
Last week Sarri publicly mooted using Dybala as a ‘false nine’, however talk since suggests the company line is very different, with mentions of Mario Mandzukic being a better foil for Ronaldo while interest in Lukaku has ramped up also.
As such, all signs point to Juventus actively trying to cash in, and now Dybala needs to find out whether he will see regular playing time in 2019-20 should he stay put.
If Sarri cannot guarantee the sort of playing time he wants, then the game will be up.
Dybala will be forced to realise his time in Turin is over, with the Premier League his next port of call.
The question will promptly become: London or Manchester?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...lo-dybala-transfer-thursday-decision-18809765
Sounds like things finally coming to head with him.
But on Thursday, he will be given a clearer picture of his future.
The 25-year-old elected to return to Turin on Wednesday, flying back from Buenos Aires despite still having five days holiday left.
Dybala is keen to meet Maurizio Sarri, the new Juventus boss, for the first time and to discuss the ex-Chelsea chief’s plans for Juve and the Argentine. He will do that when he arrives at training and for fitness tests at the J Medical Centre.
Last week Sarri publicly mooted using Dybala as a ‘false nine’, however talk since suggests the company line is very different, with mentions of Mario Mandzukic being a better foil for Ronaldo while interest in Lukaku has ramped up also.
As such, all signs point to Juventus actively trying to cash in, and now Dybala needs to find out whether he will see regular playing time in 2019-20 should he stay put.
If Sarri cannot guarantee the sort of playing time he wants, then the game will be up.
Dybala will be forced to realise his time in Turin is over, with the Premier League his next port of call.
The question will promptly become: London or Manchester?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...lo-dybala-transfer-thursday-decision-18809765
Sounds like things finally coming to head with him.
paxtonwolf
John White
He wants £350k a week to play at United. If they are willing to pay that much, they can have him
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
How much does he want to play for us?