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Moussa Sissoko

Worth noting that no one thought he was decent when he first came, it was more a split between those saying get rid asap, and those saying let's support him while he plays for Spurs, and hopefully build his confidence, rather than slag him off.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Worth noting that no one thought he was decent when he first came, it was more a split between those saying get rid asap, and those saying let's support him while he plays for Spurs, and hopefully build his confidence, rather than slag him off.
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Precisely. The guy missed a pre-season and was thrown in, playing a position he wasn’t suited to, in an entirely new system. We know how important pre-seasons are to Poch players and we know how long it takes players to settle in to the Poch system.

But people’s minds were made up after those first few games or in a lot of cases before he joined. All anyone ever said was to give it time, and that he deserves as much support as any other Spurs player now he’s pulling on our shirt.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
What are you going on about?

He has been an improving player. This is your mantra, is it not? But you are now arguing that he cannot improve and become suitable for a role, he now has to have always been good for it? I mean, seriously?

Do you think Palacios was a defensive mastermind? Id argue not, I dont think he was an especially intelligent player. I would argue, however, his coming into the team and playing a defensive role (very well) was transformative for us.

Not every defensive player is a Carrick. Some are a Palacios. But you go ahead and build a whole straw man around the role to have this argument rolling on and on.

When Sissoko was playing poorly, and you were blathering on about meteorology, it didnt change the fact he was playing poorly.

As he plays better, and shows attributes suited to a role, I recognise this - and yet its still not enough. It never is.

Sissoko played, to my eye, a defensive role at the weekend, and played it very well. Positionally he was deeper, he was taking on players and winning and intercepting the ball. Where in any of this is there an issue?
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What and where are the precise improvements in Sissoko’s game on the defensive end, that he didn’t have last season?

Youre accusing me of ‘blathering on about mentality’ and refusing to engage on the precise point that would mean that he was adding some value last season. Because if we accept he did a selfless job, he is team orientated, he recognised danger, he had the mental attributes to play Poch’s system etc, then we must accept that was the value he was adding last year. It is not blathering - these are the qualities I have always argued that he possessed.

So I’m curious as to why now you suddenly see big improvement on his defensive end that wasn’t clear before? What, specifically, is he doing this season in a defensive capacity that he wasn’t doing last season to suggest he has improved significantly in this regard? I’ll say again, I’ve always argued that he had the excellent mental attributes required to play Poch’s system.

I see his main improvement as his confidence in possession, I don’t see his main improvement as on the defensive end. I think he was strong in that regard last season and that’s why Poch played him. And that’s why we won just as many games - against small teams and big teams - whether he was in the side or not.
 
@BrainOfLevy , you exhaust me. I just dont care enough to give you what you want, because it wont end there, will it?

Something will be taken out of context, or a straw man built on your own assumption, or simply twisted, and we'll go back around again.

Lets be blunt - I stated clearly how and why I thought he was poor, and how and why I think he has improved, or not, and how and why I think he should be used. Why performances are good/bad etc. And at no point are you satisfied to accept a differing opinion, its like you wont be happy until Im brainwashed and commit to your narrative.

Ive been browsing the thread, I didnt even post anything until page 85, and didnt really engage until in the 100s - by which time you had already been at this throughout. I have to give it to you, youve got some persistence.

More than I can be bothered with right now.

Ill expect a smug "I told you so", "aha! I win! you dont have an answe" or some such, it wont come as a surprise.
 
For what it's worth, the data (WhoScored) does show that Sissoko played in a less advanced position on average against Chelsea than he has for any other match this season - indeed it's the only match in which we was (on average) the deepest midfielder. It also shows he was playing more centrally than average. It also shows he made far more tackles than he usually does (4 in 90 mins, vs 0.8 per 90 mins in all other games this season and 1.5 per 90 mins on average last season).

raw
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
@BrainOfLevy , you exhaust me. I just dont care enough to give you what you want, because it wont end there, will it?

Something will be taken out of context, or a straw man built on your own assumption, or simply twisted, and we'll go back around again.

Lets be blunt - I stated clearly how and why I thought he was poor, and how and why I think he has improved, or not, and how and why I think he should be used. Why performances are good/bad etc. And at no point are you satisfied to accept a differing opinion, its like you wont be happy until Im brainwashed and commit to your narrative.

Ive been browsing the thread, I didnt even post anything until page 85, and didnt really engage until in the 100s - by which time you had already been at this throughout. I have to give it to you, youve got some persistence.

More than I can be bothered with right now.

Ill expect a smug "I told you so", "aha! I win! you dont have an answe" or some such, it wont come as a surprise.
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Yaaaaaaaaaaaay I win!!

To be honest, I wouldn't keep coming back to it other than the fact that at various points I get told I have narratives, mantras, strawmen, or the Trumpian line that I'm 'blathering' to belittle a point I'm making. Or like yesterday you were trying to call me out for accusing you of saying the Siss-man was terrible last season, as if it makes me look bad for painting a false narrative when it's blindingly obvious why I would assume you were saying that, given how you'e talked about him multiple times throughout this thread. And at all these times, I'm going to fire back and show what I see as inconsistencies in your logic, which happen because rather than admit you could have been in any way wrong or overly harsh - and you've admitted on the previous page you won't be changing your mind - you add a new layer on to your argument which doesn't easily chive with what came before. And I'm going to call that out because frankly I haven't liked the times at various points where you've tried to paint me as delusional or some derivation there of. I accept that you have a differing opinion, and that you won't change your mind, and if it was just that rather than talking *me* down rather than the argument itself, I would have easily left it.

This is one of the more interesting threads on here. There isn't much value to be had in going into the Kane thread when he hasn't scored for two games and saying 'I hope he gets one today'. We are all pretty much aligned on how good Kane is and how valuable he is to us. There is some interesting debate to be had where people hold a spectrum of opinions on something to do with our club. Sissoko is just one of those.
 
elltrev said:
For what it's worth, the data (WhoScored) does show that Sissoko played in a less advanced position on average against Chelsea than he has for any other match this season - indeed it's the only match in which we was (on average) the deepest midfielder. It also shows he was playing more centrally than average. It also shows he made far more tackles than he usually does (4 in 90 mins, vs 0.8 per 90 mins in all other games this season and 1.5 per 90 mins on average last season).

raw
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Saw stats on sky today that this season compares to last he’s having something like twenty more touches per game, more dribbles, more success in duels. All positive things....
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
@BrainOfLevy , you exhaust me. I just dont care enough to give you what you want, because it wont end there, will it?

Something will be taken out of context, or a straw man built on your own assumption, or simply twisted, and we'll go back around again.

Lets be blunt - I stated clearly how and why I thought he was poor, and how and why I think he has improved, or not, and how and why I think he should be used. Why performances are good/bad etc. And at no point are you satisfied to accept a differing opinion, its like you wont be happy until Im brainwashed and commit to your narrative.

Ive been browsing the thread, I didnt even post anything until page 85, and didnt really engage until in the 100s - by which time you had already been at this throughout. I have to give it to you, youve got some persistence.

More than I can be bothered with right now.

Ill expect a smug "I told you so", "aha! I win! you dont have an answe" or some such, it wont come as a surprise.
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Feck me lad you've been through all 200 odd pages of this thread....

Gotta respect you as your a dedicated argumentative little bugger ain't ya?

I reckon you could do with taking your frustration out on someone or something...

Just don't forget the custard and Sissoko poster.
 
If he was a signing from this summer everyone would be creaming their knickers over him. Aurier is also stepping up aswell it seems.
 
elltrev said:
For what it's worth, the data (WhoScored) does show that Sissoko played in a less advanced position on average against Chelsea than he has for any other match this season - indeed it's the only match in which we was (on average) the deepest midfielder. It also shows he was playing more centrally than average. It also shows he made far more tackles than he usually does (4 in 90 mins, vs 0.8 per 90 mins in all other games this season and 1.5 per 90 mins on average last season).
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This is why I don't like stats without context. Anyone watching that match would tell you that whilst he did play in CM with Dier, he was far more dynamic/given license to be more dynamic, than Dier in transition moments.
 
thfcsteff said:
This is why I don't like stats without context. Anyone watching that match would tell you that whilst he did play in CM with Dier, he was far more dynamic/given license to be more dynamic, than Dier in transition moments.
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For what it’s worth, I wasn’t arguing that he wasn’t. I’m not sure anyone’s arguing that?!

Think it just shows that he got forward less than he normally does, and/or tracked back deeper more than he normally does.
 
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