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Politics, politics, politics

Didn't the fox hunting march reopen the debate on fox hunting?
With the Tories putting it in their draft manifesto?

So people march it must automatically be a good thing to do and we should give in to what they want.

Ok got it.

Posh pricks going round on horses dressed like tacos torturing an animal, a good thing. Got it.
 
Didn't the fox hunting march reopen the debate on fox hunting?
With the Tories putting it in their draft manifesto?

Not really, the big Countryside Alliance march was a couple of years before fox hunting was banned, which was fifteen years ago. The debate was reopened by May, who was casting around wildly for anything that would position her as an anti-elitist, far from Notting Hill, and energise constituency parties into doorknocking.

The march yesterday was twice as big, though. And all it has to do is stiffen the spine of a few MPs who voted remain but are scared of their constituents. It should have achieved that.
 
If that comes to pass it England will be surrounded on all sides by EU countries. Those countries will be in harmony. Not England.
Then the EU can prop them up financially instead of us.

The tone of your post sounds like there's a down-side, but.....
 
So a couple of hundred thousand turned out to march against Brexit against the one million who marched against war. At least it shows that the majority of them had their priortys right.

Not even Brexiteers are seriously arguing against the 700,000 estimate of the march size. It was enormous. No-one who queued at the official march start point on Park Lane had any hope of making it to Whitehall, much less Parliament.
 
Not even Brexiteers are seriously arguing against the 700,000 estimate of the march size. It was enormous. No-one who queued at the official march start point on Park Lane had any hope of making it to Whitehall, much less Parliament.

ShipOfGoldblum said:
The march yesterday was twice as big, though. And all it has to do is stiffen the spine of a few MPs who voted remain but are scared of their constituents. It should have achieved that.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...a-may-end-dehumanising-language-politics-live

Campaigners for a second Brexit referendum are hoping to harness the energy demonstrated by Saturday’s 700,000-strong march in London to lobby MPs in the run-up to a crucial Commons vote.

The People’s Vote group will focus on 50 Conservative MPs – including five ministers – who they believe could be persuaded to vote for a second referendum should Theresa May’s final Brexit deal be voted down.
 
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So people march it must automatically be a good thing to do and we should give in to what they want.

Ok got it.

Posh pricks going round on horses dressed like tacos torturing an animal, a good thing. Got it.
How is opening the debate giving in?

One of the core values of Brexit is taking back control of our laws and freedoms - the ability the protest against Govt action that "the people" are opposed to is the heart of Brexit ethos.

As far as your snide comment about fox hunting goes, actually yes. It's "the will of the people" and their right to protest to slaughter defenceless animals in the name of tradition. Just as it's the right of people to protest against it.
 
One of the core values of Brexit is taking back control of our laws and freedoms - the ability the protest against Govt action that "the people" are opposed to is the heart of Brexit ethos.

Fight the next battle, not the last. Campaign on applying to join the EU as a new member. Tell everyone why that would be such a good idea

At the moment it's a bit like West Ham fans stood around the Olympic Park this morning, protesting about Hernandez's disallowed goal. Rather than worrying about going to Leicester on Saturday.
 
Fight the next battle, not the last. Campaign on applying to join the EU as a new member. Tell everyone why that would be such a good idea

At the moment it's a bit like West Ham fans stood around the Olympic Park this morning, protesting about Hernandez's disallowed goal. Rather than worrying about going to Leicester on Saturday.

Nah. You lot are the ones shouting "perfectly good goal" at the telly while the replays demonstrate an offside and several fouls in the area, and the VAR refs are chatting away into their headpieces.
 
That's actually exactly my picture of remainers. That affluent North London set who going walking in the Cotswolds at the weekend. Bright anoraks and a two walking polls, even though they are only on Winchcombe high street. Lots of coffee table books on renaissance art

That's not a stereotype which resonates particularly, but they certainly sound like swing voters. Which should worry May and Corbyn alike.
 
700,000......more like 30,000, perhaps 35,000 maximum, with a good percentage of them being Europeans and not British!:cool:
 
Fight the next battle, not the last. Campaign on applying to join the EU as a new member. Tell everyone why that would be such a good idea

At the moment it's a bit like West Ham fans stood around the Olympic Park this morning, protesting about Hernandez's disallowed goal. Rather than worrying about going to Leicester on Saturday.
If the vote was to join, I would have voted no.
We currently have the best of both worlds. Bespoke EU membership and the power to maintain it.
 
I really hate the Polls. The way they go around causing a nuisance in the streets, getting in your way, holding up all the telephone wires like that
 
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In normal times and in all good faith, politicians at a general election present a manifesto they believe will improve people’s lives. Politicians of a like mind will largely agree with that manifesto, believing it to be better than the alternative. In government, with all good intentions, the manifesto is implemented – maybe not in its entirety and with compromises being made. That is politics, in normal times.

But these are not normal times. Brexit is different. As an MP who campaigned for Remain during the EU referendum in June 2016, I do not believe I can, in all good faith and with all good intentions, tell my electorate that I have changed my mind. First, my constituents won’t believe me. And second, I did not enter politics to knowingly make my constituents poorer. This presents a moral dilemma for Remain-supporting MPs, especially those whose constituents voted to leave.

We now know more about what leaving means than we did two years ago. A £40bn divorce bill. The loss of jobs in major industries. No extra money for the NHS. The threat of stockpiled food. Lower growth and therefore less money for our public services. Even the government’s assessments say there will be a negative impact on the British economy under whatever deal the prime minister negotiates with the EU. These facts are even more stark for my constituents since the north-east of England will be the worst-hit region.

I did not enter politics to make people poorer. I was brought up in a coal-mining community the son of a miner. I know what happens when an industry closes. The unemployment. The poverty. The loss of hope and the years it takes to get back on your feet. Grievances that still play out today and need to be resolved. Brexit may be the symptom but it is not the cure.

If you voted to remain because all the information and data pointed to your constituents being worse off and all the data since suggests that this is still the case, it is surely wrong for MPs to engineer a position in which the choice is between a deal and no deal – both of which will offer differing levels of economic distress. To be forced into this position is to be avoided at all costs.

More than 200 Labour MPs signed up to keep Britain in the EU during the referendum campaign. The vast majority are still in parliament and face this dilemma. In many cases their constituents voted to leave. This doesn’t let them off the hook. I do not believe we can vote to accept a deal that we know, however it is dressed up, will make our constituents poorer.

I understand that many of my Remain-supporting Labour colleagues representing Leave-voting constituencies feel this acutely. I feel this too. In my constituency, almost three out of five voted Leave.

However, for me, the fundamentals have not changed. Brexit will be bad for Britain, the north-east and my constituents. Therefore, I believe Brexit for any Remain MP, especially those from Leave seats, is now about moral leadership. Do we do what we know is right for the country or not? Do we lead or do we follow? We know as Remain MPs that if leaving the EU was not good for the country in 2016, it is certainly not – after all the Brexit twists and turns – the right thing to do now.

Opinion polls show that the majority of people believe Brexit negotiations are going badly and will result in a bad deal. That is why the British people should have the right to think again, in a national vote on the deal. It is for them to decide. They may agree to proceed with Brexit. They may decide to stop it. Either way the decision will have been made. And we can get on with our lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...leave-labour-second-referendum-phil-wilson-mp
 
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