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Eric Dier

braineclipse said:
Not sure if you're talking more in general or weighing in on the current discussion on Dier vs. Winks?

I agree with your overall point. But for me Winks adds more of what we need. Performances and results when he has anchored our midfield surely indicates that at the very least there hasn't been a severe lack of balance or team spirit?

The combined weaknesses of Dier and Dembele makes us more vulnerable when teams press high up the pitch imo. To me that is as important as balance.

The combined weaknesses of Dier and Dembele also causes problems against teams that sit back deep. Again an important issue.

To me not having enough ability to pass quickly through central midfield when under pressure is the primary area where we could/should improve in our otherwise excellent team. I don't see that enough from Dier, Dembele or Wanyama. Having only one, young and so far injury prone, deep midfielder with that in his locker is an imbalance in our squad.
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Dier and Winks is the answer for me.
 
harr1984 said:
So pundits on tv, many of whom played CM at top level don’t understand how team game works but of course posters on here do better?:DOk then....

As for Dier, yesterday was better when he was given time on the ball but as soon as he was pressurised he started losing the ball again. But let’s hope this was the start of some better form, green shoots and all that...
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The old Ray Houghton logic, I can only think of all the fantastic (truly) players I've seen who couldn't manage and ex pros who could play but had little understanding of dynamic of a team. How often do we hear their great insights to why teams are struggling at the bottom of league and the solution to the problem? They are great at stating the bleeding obvious about the top teams they see every week on tv. Sure we could always get better players in certain positions but that doesn't always work, we've seen happen many times here in the past. Every season we appear to have a new player who is singled out as the reason for our failings, just gets boring.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I do something think that people want a player that doesn’t exist

It’s why most CMs play as a pair
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No, we don't like the one that does exist. ;)
He is/was pedestrian yesterday. Now he might be like the rest start to pick up over the coming weeks.
I like him as a character but he's no Usain Bolt? Or he looks like Usain playing football:)
 
He was better, but still takes too many risks with his sideways passes. Quite a few of them where inches away from being intercepted, leaving us 1 vs 2. And for a big unit, he got very easily knocked off the ball a couple of times, and was really slow to recover.
 
Kandi1977 said:
He was better, but still takes too many risks with his sideways passes. Quite a few of them where inches away from being intercepted, leaving us 1 vs 2. And for a big unit, he got very easily knocked off the ball a couple of times, and was really slow to recover.
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"really slow to recover."

Spot on!
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
The old Ray Houghton logic, I can only think of all the fantastic (truly) players I've seen who couldn't manage and ex pros who could play but had little understanding of dynamic of a team. How often do we hear their great insights to why teams are struggling at the bottom of league and the solution to the problem? They are great at stating the bleeding obvious about the top teams they see every week on tv. Sure we could always get better players in certain positions but that doesn't always work, we've seen happen many times here in the past. Every season we appear to have a new player who is singled out as the reason for our failings, just gets boring.
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Your post was saying pundits don’t understand how a team works, then you go on to explain as if you have a better understanding of it than ex pros - they understand it far better than you or me, regardless of whether they’d make good managers or not, there are many facets to being a good manager way beyond just understanding the game.

As for Dier, he just seems too slow of late. I like him bar his constant hospital passes, and I agree I don’t like the spacegoating that goes on. People talk about Kane needing a rest, but I think Dier might be in even more need of one - without seeing stats he seems to of been an ever present and playing mostly in CM he must do as much running as anyone. With Winks and Wanyama nearing returns maybe he could at least be rotated a little more to freshen him up a bit....
 
I suppose that's why so many ex pros are sports psychologist, most of the ex pros I've known well have a great insight to the best night clubs for picking up birds and where to get a free meal, guys with a talent and natural ability but not great thinkers.
 
I honestly think the hospital pass comment on the basis their inches away from getting caught could be said about a lot of our players

We play a brave high risk game and risks are taken

We could play safety first but that doesn’t beat bus Parker’s or well organised teams

So on one hand we have people saying we don’t pass well enough to beat those teams... then when we do we have people moaning we’re almost having those passes intercepted
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
I honestly think the hospital pass comment on the basis their inches away from getting caught could be said about a lot of our players

We play a brave high risk game and risks are taken

We could play safety first but that doesn’t beat bus Parker’s or well organised teams

So on one hand we have people saying we don’t pass well enough to beat those teams... then when we do we have people moaning we’re almost having those passes intercepted
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No, his hospital passes are those when he turns to play it back to a CB or GK and instead it goes to an opposition forward and creates a goalscoring chance for them. He’s done it countless times, it’s nothing to do with him trying to play an adventurous forward pass....
 
harr1984 said:
No, his hospital passes are those when he turns to play it back to a CB or GK and instead it goes to an opposition forward and creates a goalscoring chance for them. He’s done it countless times, it’s nothing to do with him trying to play an adventurous forward pass....
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I’ve heard many people say he does it yet the only one I can think of that cost us was vs pool last season

I’d like to see more examples

What I will say again is others play the same passes and fail but get no criticism

Toby did several last weekend

Verts did one yesterday and fell over

It happens to all good players
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But we made the passes with fast one or two touch football

That’s a goal Barca would be proud of
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Yeah, but more movement and options gives the opposition more defensive sets to consider, if the next pass is telegraphed their next shape is too, it doesn’t make them think and limits the potential mistakes. Also, if we move more, they move more, tiring them quicker and brining our superior fitness into play earlier.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’ve heard many people say he does it yet the only one I can think of that cost us was vs pool last season

I’d like to see more examples

What I will say again is others play the same passes and fail but get no criticism

Toby did several last weekend

Verts did one yesterday and fell over

It happens to all good players
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I’m not saying they have all cost us goals, does that make it ok to just keep playing a back pass to an attacker? He has done it so many times there isn’t an example that sticks out, and whilst any player can do it he has done it far more than any other Spurs player otherwise I’d happily criticise them for the same thing. It was either in this thread or a match thread couple of weeks back pre match someone highlighted his constant brain farts in this department, and low and behold he did another one in that game. He didn’t yesterday and that’s great, let’s hope it continues...
 
harr1984 said:
I’m not saying they have all cost us goals, does that make it ok to just keep playing a back pass to an attacker? He has done it so many times there isn’t an example that sticks out, and whilst any player can do it he has done it far more than any other Spurs player otherwise I’d happily criticise them for the same thing. It was either in this thread or a match thread couple of weeks back pre match someone highlighted his constant brain farts in this department, and low and behold he did another one in that game. He didn’t yesterday and that’s great, let’s hope it continues...
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He did one vs pool, it was really poor
He didn’t do any vs Inter but he did have a pass intercepted that was going to Davies IIRC
He didn’t play vs Watford
He was excellent vs United and was everywhere
I didn’t see Fulham and I can’t remember the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game

He does struggle when pressed but 99% of players do... it’s why teams do it

I still say when we’re being pressed the 3 in front need to drop back as help Dier and Moussa which they don’t do unless lamela or Dele are playing
 
galeforce said:
Yeah, but more movement and options gives the opposition more defensive sets to consider, if the next pass is telegraphed their next shape is too, it doesn’t make them think and limits the potential mistakes. Also, if we move more, they move more, tiring them quicker and brining our superior fitness into play earlier.
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Agreed
It was a class Goal at a point when Brighton were playing their best
 
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