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Politics, politics, politics

glorygloryeze said:
Out of interest, what taxation level do you think that would be for the UK? Also, which countries in your opinion have the optimum level for their given population and economy?
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My main point of comparison for IT is the Czech Republic. Their income tax system is simple and fair - everyone pays a flat rate of 15%, those who earn more than around 5 times the national average pay another 7% on that additional level on top of that. The simplicity and the fairness means that there's little ability or incentive to cheat the system. In fact, it's quite common for self-employed EU citizens to register in CZ and pay their income tax there - I can give you some pointers if you like.

In terms of corporation tax, it's all about competition. The rate needs to be low enough to attract business from overseas and to avoid the need to push profits out of the country.
 
the dza said:
With political will, wouldn't it be possible to greatly reduce the ability to move wealth around offshore so as to avoid tax? Those in power for the last 40 odd years have had no real desire to try and do this, imo. Probably because most of them are bought and paid for (see the jobs Blair and son manage to land after finishing in politics as an example).
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It's unlikely to ever work. If the tax rate is punitive enough then it will always be worth paying for better accountants and better lawyers. Those accountants and lawyers will always be better than those the government can employ.
 
"People earning lots of money don't often complain about it's impossible to earn lots of money" When did I write that? You are deluded. You're inventing an argument that was never made. My dad made the point that anyone can find work, but exploiters don't want to pay a decent wage for it. Also, that people should expect to be able to survive in any full time work. Why should people invest in a system that disregards them? Conservative...Tory....same thing. Of course you would label it the politics of envy... We call it the politics of fairness. No such thing as an elite....ha, ha, ha, ha. ha.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
How long have you been on here?......Scara has always displayed his empathy bypass. Its legendary.
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I was commenting on the dad being able to recognise something even if it dint happen to himself rather than his lack of - "is this what you humans call empathy?"

I knew he was lacking but thought he may have been aware of the concept.
 

Looks like some form of Brexit is inevitable. Which is crazy as
  • Hard Brexit = most pain for the UK.
  • Soft Brexit = no one wins (BINO) Brexit in name only with the UK a rule taker, and
  • Remain = UK prosperous, protected, free local trade, keeps all the car manufacturers and banks, people get free phone roaming, polution controls, we help build and use a new non-US saterlite systems creating jobs etc etc etc
The benifits to remain are clear, but not one can clearly and logically articulate the benifits of leaving. How Leavers argue a Hard Brexit will be good for the UK is almost treasonous. It's taking delusion to a new level. Even Jacob - I've found the limelight - Mogg said it would take 50 years to find out if hard brexit works for the UK. 50 years.

I think the problem is, at this late stage people are not motivated. They are bored with Brexit. But a Tory leadership election and a buffoon like Boris delivering a Hard Brexit could cast the UK backwards (economically) with almost no postive prospects on the flip side - potato seed sales to China a farcical exception that proves the rule. Dr Twit Fox trying to spin something postive turns to potato seeds! Is that really the best he and we (the UK) can do? Give up sophisticated fiancial, manufacturing and agrictural trade with our rich neighbours to sell potato seeds to China. Good one Doc.

If the print media was onside with cancelling Brexit it would happen very quickly imo. If the Sun, Mail etc were bringing out scandles about Russian millions funding it, how nursesand patients will pay with wages and lives etc. there would be momentum. Problem is, there is only lengthy, reasoned (and boring) arguements in the FT and Guardian. And that's not what is needed. We need quick, punchy, emotive sound bites. Think lines of immigrants. A big pink bus....

As things stand apparently most people, a small majority, want to remain in the EU. Which makes the folly even worse, it's not representing our current democracy. The options are clear: the UK will be hit fiancially by a hard exit, we lose sovrignity and control with a no-one happy soft exit, or we bite the bullet and get over our prejudices to deliver a better UK within the EU.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
And then there's the silent majority who are just counting down the days till March, when the future can begin.
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There is a silent majority of people who do not give a brick either way, until it hits them in the pocket. I bet if you asked a random 20 people what significant thing will be happening in March or when will Brexit happen 70% wont have a clue. (even more in some town centers).
 
r-u-s-x said:
There is a silent majority of people who do not give a brick either way, until it hits them in the pocket. I bet if you asked a random 20 people what significant thing will be happening in March or when will Brexit happen 70% wont have a clue. (even more in some town centers).
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Part of the problem is its complex. Nothin will happen in March. It will be the green light for a slow, steady downgrading of the UK. The only immidiate things will be forign holidays are more expensive (they are now, and could become more so), then jobs will start to go bit by bit, then the government will need to borrow or cut spending on services in a couple of years time etc.

But to get the public on-side now, you need some more dramatic imagery. Of patients dying and nurses not being paid. Of people saying goodby at car factories for the last time etc.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Happier and more joyful mainly

Making corporations and rich people pay tax for a change would improve public services
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How does leaving the EU in March lead to the UK being happier and more joyful? Genuine question.

Corporations are asking the government (us) to put their hand in their pocket now to pay for the upheaval to come. Pharmaceutical companies yesterday asked that the government help pay for them to stockpile meds and make contingencies. What is happier and more joyful about that? The stone cold reality of Brexit are logisical headaces and less wealth. Unless you're into living in squats and eating brown rice I don't see happier, I see more fiancial constraints on people and greater wealth inequality. The UKs rich will use Brexit to their advantage while nurses and teachers pick up the tab. Corporations and rich people can fly away to other locations should they need to. Why would they sick around if challanged to pay more?

Isn't it alarming that no one can outline a positive Brexit that holds tight? One that is logical and believable? A third of the country are supposedly into it. Yet no one has a plan of how it will make us "happier and more joyful". On the flip side every economist worth their salt (including our own Treasury) can outline how it will make us poorer.

No wonder Leavers are silent. There is nothing to say apart from Whooops!
 
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It's stepping off the globalisation treadmill. The needs of society reasserting itself over the economic engines of profit and greed. It's taking control to plan things and consider matters like sustainability and happiness, rather than being oppressed by neo-liberal excesses.

Brexit is only the first step - repatriating power. The next step (starting at the 2022 general election) is giving it to the right people to start creating a post-neo-liberal state
 
Gutter Boy said:
It's stepping off the globalisation treadmill. The needs of society reasserting itself over the economic engines of profit and greed. It's taking control to plan things and consider matters like sustainability and happiness, rather than being oppressed by neo-liberal excesses.

Brexit is only the first step - repatriating power. The next step (starting at the 2022 general election) is giving it to the right people to start creating a post-neo-liberal state
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I say it again but your pathway is the least likely of outcomes - the most likely of outcomes is we lurch right towards a mini US (less protection, more exploitation, more globalization).

I don't know if you believe what you write or you express what you want to happen but its really so unlikely that its practically an impossibility. No one (of any consequence) is offering what you want to buy.
 
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