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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Going by Poch's logic Leicester City should have continued their winning streak.

FA Cup glory i.e. silverware would not benefit Spurs culture? Has anyone not told Poch we have won the FA Cup 8 times?

I very much doubt Arsene Wenger arrived in Highbury with that same mindset when he did the double in his first full season with Arsenal.

Or he is trying to take the pressure off of the players and shut up the commentators who bang on about silverware after every game.

I missed your point about Leicester, I didn't see the bit where he said that winning the league was a guarantee of future progression.
 
Nb

I also think there's likely an aspect of trying to take the pressure off the players (like when he insisted that our performances at Wembley weren't a problem) but I think he goes too far imo.
 
We will see how much he values winning the thing when he names the team.
Given what he's just said it looks like he intends largely to stick with the players that have got us thus far already. Like he feels the need to justify in advance his reasons for not fielding a full-strength team.
 
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We will see how much he values winning the thing when he names the team.

Where does it say, or even suggest, that he doesn't value winning. What he is talking about is the development of the players. He, quite rightly in my opinion, points out that it takes more to win a competition spread over the whole season and that the players would take more from this.
 
Where does it say, or even suggest, that he doesn't value winning. What he is talking about is the development of the players. He, quite rightly in my opinion, points out that it takes more to win a competition spread over the whole season and that the players would take more from this.

They would take more from winning the league of course, its the pinnacle of achievement. It doesn't mean they wouldn't take anything at all from a domestic cup.
 
They would take more from winning the league of course, its the pinnacle of achievement. It doesn't mean they wouldn't take anything at all from a domestic cup.

Poch says that it would help

"When you win a real tournament, when you need to play under pressure and perform at your best over 10 months – that is the moment when you start to learn about winning,” Pochettino said. “ Winning a cup is going to help but to create that winning culture you need to work a lot and take many steps. It is not: ‘Oh, I am going to create a winning culture in two months [at the business end of a cup run].’”

He is making a wider point about creating a winning culture at the club. I think that he aiming higher.
 
Poch says that it would help

"When you win a real tournament, when you need to play under pressure and perform at your best over 10 months – that is the moment when you start to learn about winning,” Pochettino said. “ Winning a cup is going to help but to create that winning culture you need to work a lot and take many steps. It is not: ‘Oh, I am going to create a winning culture in two months [at the business end of a cup run].’”

He is making a wider point about creating a winning culture at the club. I think that he aiming higher.

See, this is the kind of nonsense that I'm talking about. When you win a 'real tournament'? Jesus christ man.

And as I said, it is at odds with someone like Ferguson, who explicitly said that he used the LC win in the mid 2000s to springboard his squad to greater things. Not at all saying that this is necessary or would happen for all clubs. But he clearly thought it was worth winning for his squad.

He may well be aiming higher but there needs to be some recognition of how difficult it is to actually win league titles and CLs. Other than Leicester, has any club won one of those 2 without having won some other trophies before in the recent past? We haven't come within a few points of 1st for GHod knows how long and haven't reached beyond the QF in the CL for again, about 55 years. So yep, I love aiming higher, its great. I want us to win trophies, the best trophies (though according to some, trophies aren't needed I guess). But I don't really see the point of disparaging the domestic cups and implying there is little worth to them.

Also, who said you create a winning culture in 2 months?
 
See, this is the kind of nonsense that I'm talking about. When you win a 'real tournament'? Jesus christ man.

And as I said, it is at odds with someone like Ferguson, who explicitly said that he used the LC win in the mid 2000s to springboard his squad to greater things. Not at all saying that this is necessary or would happen for all clubs. But he clearly thought it was worth winning for his squad.

He may well be aiming higher but there needs to be some recognition of how difficult it is to actually win league titles and CLs. Other than Leicester, has any club won one of those 2 without having won some other trophies before in the recent past? We haven't come within a few points of 1st for GHod knows how long and haven't reached beyond the QF in the CL for again, about 55 years. So yep, I love aiming higher, its great. I want us to win trophies, the best trophies (though according to some, trophies aren't needed I guess). But I don't really see the point of disparaging the domestic cups and implying there is little worth to them.

Also, who said you create a winning culture in 2 months?

In 2000 winning the league cup still mattered, if only just. Today it is a nothing trophy, barely above a pre season tournament (unless you're desperate to qualify for the Europa League). The FA cup only matters as a consolation price if you've failed in the league.
 
I get what he is saying but to be honest I am a little disappointed with the timing of these comments and their content, again. Whatever his motives I'm sure he has thought them through even if I can't really see the benefit of them now at this point. Obviously CL qualification is top of his priority list and I agree with that, but ask me what I'll get more of a buzz out of as a fan and I'll say winning the FA cup. I want Spurs to win it and I want to have a good time off the back of that. I abhor the binary cup or CL question so no need for anyone to post that again please. I want us to go full throttle for both.
 
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See, this is the kind of nonsense that I'm talking about. When you win a 'real tournament'? Jesus christ man.

And as I said, it is at odds with someone like Ferguson, who explicitly said that he used the LC win in the mid 2000s to springboard his squad to greater things. Not at all saying that this is necessary or would happen for all clubs. But he clearly thought it was worth winning for his squad.

He may well be aiming higher but there needs to be some recognition of how difficult it is to actually win league titles and CLs. Other than Leicester, has any club won one of those 2 without having won some other trophies before in the recent past? We haven't come within a few points of 1st for GHod knows how long and haven't reached beyond the QF in the CL for again, about 55 years. So yep, I love aiming higher, its great. I want us to win trophies, the best trophies (though according to some, trophies aren't needed I guess). But I don't really see the point of disparaging the domestic cups and implying there is little worth to them.

Also, who said you create a winning culture in 2 months?

I think that you are being a little selective in what you are taking from what he's said. As you said earlier, he is probably trying to take the pressure off of the players. I am sure that we would all agree that it takes a lot more to win the league or champions league than it does the domestic cups. That is not to say that a domestic cup wouldn't be nice, it would, but I agree with Poch that it would change little.
 
I get what he is saying but to be honest I am a little disappointed with the timing of these comments and their content, again. Whatever his motives I'm sure he has thought them through even if I can't really see the benefit of them now at this point. Obviously CL qualification is top of his priority list and I agree with that, but ask me what I'll get more of a buzz out of as a fan and I'll say winning the FA cup. I want Spurs to win it and I want to have a good time off the back of that. I abhor the binary cup or CL question so not need for anyone to post that again please. I want us to go full throttle for both.

If he is trying to take the pressure off of the players, when else could he say it?
 
In 2000 winning the league cup still mattered, if only just. Today it is a nothing trophy, barely above a pre season tournament (unless you're desperate to qualify for the Europa League).

Not really. Its never been a particularly 'worthy' trophy and Ferguson disregarded it completely for a long time, barely bothering in it. Because he genuinely did have higher aspirations and more importantly, was actually winning league titles, FA cups and competing regularly in the CL and deeply.

Then came a period when Ferguson, perhaps British football's greatest winner, decided to focus on the cup, as he was well out of the running for league, FA cup and CL rhat season. He won. And he said that he and the squad considered it a springboard to greater success.

He won it in 2006 btw, not 2000.

Also I don't know what you guys watch football for but winning the league cup in 2008 was one of my highlights as a Spurs fan in the past 10 years. I watched on as Guardiola's players, on course for a title win as well, celebrated vociferously, after winning this 'pointless cup' this season.

Like I said, I don't understand this attitude. We haven't won a major trophy according to some of our fans for 57 years now and counting. When did we become above winning trophies exactly?
 
If he is trying to take the pressure off of the players, when else could he say it?
Is that what he is trying to do? We can't really be sure of that but if it is that then fine. To be honest I don't think that is what he is doing based on repeated comments about the cup competitions but who knows.
 
I think that you are being a little selective in what you are taking from what he's said. As you said earlier, he is probably trying to take the pressure off of the players. I am sure that we would all agree that it takes a lot more to win the league or champions league than it does the domestic cups. That is not to say that a domestic cup wouldn't be nice, it would, but I agree with Poch that it would change little.

What am I being selective in? You are the one who provided that quote, I hadn't even commented on that bit until you had highlighted it. You're making statements that don't seem all that relevant to what is being said. Yes the league and CL are much harder to win (let me make a prediction right now. Unless we're taken over by an oligarch of some kind or another, we're not going to win the CL in the next 10 years). What that has to do with (effectively) claiming

I think (and hope) that he is trying to take pressure off. But the repetitive nature of his comments about the cups, the line-ups he has put out on occasion and our performances in general in the cup competitions makes me not convinced that they're just a front.

One wonders why we don't just withdraw from one or two of these cups every season so we can focus on what are apparently the real prizes, seeing as we've outgrown the domestic cups.

Also it is completely disingenous to compare winning the Copa del ray as an Espanyol player to winning a domestic cup as a Spurs player.

Espanyol are a mid table club with a total of 4 trophies in their history (all CDR). Firstly, as I said, I'm sure you couldn't tell their fans that those 2 victories meant nothing. But yes, obviously winning a domestic trophy at a midtable club with little aspiration is not going to be the same at all as a club, historically reasonably sized, with some very good recent league performances and attempting overall to change the structure of the club to compete at the very top. You can't compare say Wigan's cup win, with a gtroup of players who had nothing to play for in the league other than avoiding relegation, to Spurs, who are attempting (apparently) to win the league. There is an inherent difference in outlook in those two squads and inherent difference in motivations and ambition.

I hope we win the FA cup for so many reasons. Because I love winning trophies as a fan and I think some people seem to have forgotten the joy of that. Because I personally do think it will help push us on and give the players confidence. That actually, when we're under the cosh, we do have the experience and steel to come out on top. That it will add a trophy to the cabinet. That it will (partly) satisfy some of our players, who have made it clear that winning trophies is important for them. That it will stop the media asking what we've won. And hopefully it will stop Poch making these disparaging comments about these trophies when we still haven't won the 2 big ones (or really even come that close).
 
With respect to Poch, there's literally no point to those comments. Has anyone ever said that the team who won the fa Cup or league Cup are better than the league winners? Or that they're harder to win?
 
I love Poch but to be honest I think he is a bit of an oddball. In his book he comes across as a bit need and over sensitive and he also manages in much the same way.
 
We are in the Semis. This is Poch's opportunity to bring some silverware to the club and shut up the critics.
 
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