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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Pirate55 said:
So, specifically , where have you criticised/questioned Poch. Give me examples, and I will apologise.
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Hahaha, fantastic. How Trumpian!!!

Nah.

You’re alright.

Keep your apology, albeit I suspect they are a rare occurrence. I know the truth. BTW, I added to my answer above since you posted your kind and generous offer.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
thfcsteff said:
In fairness he has at least told Poch where the obstructions on success lie.
Score more goals from corners and be more intense at the beginning...

I pray to every GHod I don’t believe in that if Poch is on the verge of logging into Pirate’s view, he does so AFTER March 7th....


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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But not so intense that we risk conceding first...
 
thfcsteff said:
Hahaha, fantastic. How Trumpian!!!

Nah.

You’re alright.

Keep your apology, albeit I suspect they are a rare occurrence. I know the truth. BTW, I added to my answer above since you posted your kind and generous offer.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I'm happy for you that you know the truth. How marvellous that must be. At least it brings to an end this discussion.
 
thfcsteff said:
Gloves off.
I don’t subscribe to a “cultish position” I subscribe to what my eyes and brain tell me. And what they tell me is that he is a man who learns, and continues to learn. Your frankly erroneous assertion that I see him as being beyond criticism simply illustrates tour apparent inability to see anything with context beyond your own (IMO) often needle-thin scope.

It comes down to trust.
I believe he has shown me enough, shown everyone enough, to earn my trust.
If we don’t score over a dozen goals a week from corners, I assume he has either
a) seen this or
b) plays in a way whereby corners are a bonus not a game plan. And whilst YOU might find that wrong, it would appear that overall, Tottenham Hotspur are not suffering unduly.

As for the rest, apply the same “trust” so far as I am concerned.

I have criticized/questioned him this season, but it is true to say I ALWAYS come back to the fact that he is the manager, and he has done enough for the club to earn my trust as opposed to some continual drivel-stream of “observed criticisms” regarding a couple of game aspects which have arisen a few times this season.

Again, your inability to illustrate accuracy and context (even with your observations of my position on the manager) speak for themselves.

Finally, and I say this with full truth. A Carabou Cup, even an FA Cup this season, are simply not as important as top 4 and CL place. Keeping this unit paid and together is everything. You will see, next season, that the plans he is mobilizing right now (and started mobilizing in August) will see us in place to compete for the trophies we deserve.

If we got an FA Cup and top 4, great. But top 4 over everything would be continued success. Whisper it - we could even do better.



Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Really agree with this. The idea that it is about trust is spot on. This is in no way to say that Poch is perfect, or that he has nothing to learn, rather that at least for me he will be operating with an understanding of the game way beyond what I can comprehend, so points like 'We need to score more at corners' for example are just so far below the level of detail of his thinking that it is actually a little silly.

We should absolutely discuss, and absolutely pose questions and criticism, but the idea that really we have spotted something or can direct something that Poch hasn't seen is actually nonsense. He will take criticism, he will take advice, and he will learn. But he will do that through honest conversations with his backroom staff, through his lunches with Fergie, through travelling the world to understand how other coaches are preparing and training their squads. He won't learn from us, because we have nothing to teach him. And anyone that knows who he is or has read anything from him knows he is one of the most self critical and analytical coaches around. I would argue that one of the reasons he has been so successful with us is because he has a willingness to constantly reassess where he is going, what is working and what isn't, and adjust accordingly. So many managers have one note that gives them an advantage, and once they lose that or it gets taken over by something else, they start looking quite average. We've had Jol fail to ever make us solid again after we lost Carrick. You can see people like Wenger and Mourinho no longer getting above expected performance because they have been overtaken. Poch could have easily been a Jol, but the fact is he learns and adjusts so much that we are still overachieving 4 years into his reign. It's pretty remarkable.

He has learnt and adjusted around things like formations, which are obvious for us to see. And tactics for particular games - being willing to counter rather than always press high. He's also learned to play the press game a little more and send barbs back to rival managers (he has acknowledged privately that a failure to vent on the Leceister season may have increased the pressure on the players before the Battle of the Bridge, because he was trying to operate above the fray, and so holding himself accountable for the performance we got there.).

So he learns for sure, and I also trust him to continue to learn, because that's what makes him great. It is actually a rare mix of belief in a set of principles and an ability to adapt them when required - an incredibly hard nuance to balance. But he does it. To trust him is not to say that he will never learn or never needs to, rather to say that he has shown an understanding of what works beyond what we could ever offer to him.
 
Pirate55 said:
I'm happy for you that you know the truth. How marvellous that must be. At least it brings to an end this discussion.
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I do. What I find hilarious is that you want me to do your legwork for you simply to get an apology from you over something I already know. Sorry. Your apology isn’t worth that amount of time. Far better you think I’m a dingdong!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Really agree with this. The idea that it is about trust is spot on. This is in no way to say that Poch is perfect, or that he has nothing to learn, rather that at least for me he will be operating with an understanding of the game way beyond what I can comprehend, so points like 'We need to score more at corners' for example are just so far below the level of detail of his thinking that it is actually a little silly.

We should absolutely discuss, and absolutely pose questions and criticism, but the idea that really we have spotted something or can direct something that Poch hasn't seen is actually nonsense. He will take criticism, he will take advice, and he will learn. But he will do that through honest conversations with his backroom staff, through his lunches with Fergie, through travelling the world to understand how other coaches are preparing and training their squads. He won't learn from us, because we have nothing to teach him. And anyone that knows who he is or has read anything from him knows he is one of the most self critical and analytical coaches around. I would argue that one of the reasons he has been so successful with us is because he has a willingness to constantly reassess where he is going, what is working and what isn't, and adjust accordingly. So many managers have one note that gives them an advantage, and once they lose that or it gets taken over by something else, they start looking quite average. We've had Jol fail to ever make us solid again after we lost Carrick. You can see people like Wenger and Mourinho no longer getting above expected performance because they have been overtaken. Poch could have easily been a Jol, but the fact is he learns and adjusts so much that we are still overachieving 4 years into his reign. It's pretty remarkable.

He has learnt and adjusted around things like formations, which are obvious for us to see. And tactics for particular games - being willing to counter rather than always press high. He's also learned to play the press game a little more and send barbs back to rival managers (he has acknowledged privately that a failure to vent on the Leceister season may have increased the pressure on the players before the Battle of the Bridge, because he was trying to operate above the fray, and so holding himself accountable for the performance we got there.).

So he learns for sure, and I also trust him to continue to learn, because that's what makes him great. It is actually a rare mix of belief in a set of principles and an ability to adapt them when required - an incredibly hard nuance to balance. But he does it. To trust him is not to say that he will never learn or never needs to, rather to say that he has shown an understanding of what works beyond what we could ever offer to him.
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You cultist!!!!! :)


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
So not sure if this is the right thread, (Pls move admin if there is somewhere else).

I'm an oldie (I was here the night of the mighty Sock transfer :) ) but a new poster here having lurked on and off for over a decade before recently re-registering.

I'm a massive fan of Poch. Not to the point where I don't question his team selection or formation on the odd occasions but he is (IMHO) the one we've been missing for decades. He strikes me as fiercely honest person that has sound principles and is a fantastic people manager as well as a very good tactician. Assuming Levy realises exactly what he's got and provides everything Poch asks for then I can see Poch trying to emulate Fergie and build an empire which he could easily do before moving on to manage RM, PSG or any number of national teams.

So the purpose of this post was because I recently discussed my opinion of the improvements at spurs with some of my goon and a L'poo mates. They in turn came back with the normal, come talk to us when you win something, mumbles of black and white, blah blah. This got me tinkering with google sheets and by looking at our season end results vs the other big boys (Excluding that freak show team) since the 14/15 season. I came up with some tables that, well, you judge for yourselves.

Can we now say that the power has shifted if you gaze at the table below and exclude the success of FA and some other domestic cup? Maybe not, but what did jump out was we have seriously improved under Poch and are looking good to establish ourselves as a top 4 regular IMHO assuming we continue with this team, (some minor casualties expected) and Poch of course.

upload_2018-2-24_0-16-8.png

Having looked at that table though, I felt it didn't do justice to that sense of achievement and success I feel we've achieved over the same time-frame. So I created a table excluding the 14/15 season, (we finished 5th on 64pts, 6pts off Manure and 11 off the Ar$e in 3rd) which could only improve our stats.

Behold, a more realistic look at what the team has been capable of after Poch's first season to get the squad foundation, players in/out and fitness levels sorted. upload_2018-2-24_0-23-47.png

Having gone this far I decided to take just last season and this year to complete the picture.

upload_2018-2-24_0-31-33.png

I think when I look back to the dark Scholar / Sugar / early Levy days and the managerial merry go round, poor football with the odd gem of a match, few cups, etc. I feel incredibly happy to see what is unfolding before our very eyes.

COYS!!! :)
 
Nice
To show our steady improvement you could calculate Points Per Game for a rolling 10 game average and see us creep upwards over the years
 
I would not dream of second guessing Poch but please, please can he reconsider never putting Dele, Christian and Lamela together against a team you know will park the bus against us. It simply doesn't work. All three players get into each other's way, Lamela tries to dribble his way through 6 players and invariably loses the ball and we condense play in the middle - playing into the hands of our opponents. We have Moura, we have Son; we must start one of them in every such game. Indeed why not both on each side of Kane and Dele and have Eriksen pulling the strings next to Dembele
 
Maltese Falcon said:
I would not dream of second guessing Poch but please, please can he reconsider never putting Dele, Christian and Lamela together against a team you know will park the bus against us. It simply doesn't work. All three players get into each other's way, Lamela tries to dribble his way through 6 players and invariably loses the ball and we condense play in the middle - playing into the hands of our opponents. We have Moura, we have Son; we must start one of them in every such game. Indeed why not both on each side of Kane and Dele and have Eriksen pulling the strings next to Dembele
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I really don't understand why eriksen and lamela can't or won't pass to each other.
Eriksen had 10 yards pass to lamela on the break in our half today, looked at it then pumped the ball 50 yards up field to no one!
 
I noticed Alli could have played Lamela in on goal but chose a very tough switch which failed.
I noticed Kane could have played Lamela in on goal but chose to shoot at the pigeons, like Andros Townsend.
 
Agree about the comments of having Dele, Eriksen and Lamela in the side together - it was obvious as soon as the line-up was announced, let alone the game beginning.

As I said in the match thread, I find Lamela incredibly frustrating - he has ability and he has heart and fight.....yet he rarely looks like scoring and doesnt up defences that much or get many assists. I know he's had a long injury but its not hard to believe that we'd look a lot more dangerous with Son or Moura in there in his place. At least one of those two needs to start every game so that we dont have the one-paced trio of Dele, Eriksen and Lamela - we look easy to defend against with those three as we have no threat in behind the opposition
 
AdamB said:
Agree about the comments of having Dele, Eriksen and Lamela in the side together - it was obvious as soon as the line-up was announced, let alone the game beginning.

As I said in the match thread, I find Lamela incredibly frustrating - he has ability and he has heart and fight.....yet he rarely looks like scoring and doesnt up defences that much or get many assists. I know he's had a long injury but its not hard to believe that we'd look a lot more dangerous with Son or Moura in there in his place. At least one of those two needs to start every game so that we dont have the one-paced trio of Dele, Eriksen and Lamela - we look easy to defend against with those three as we have no threat in behind the opposition
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And yet lamela and Dele were in good posiions in and around the box and we couldn't or wouldn't find them.
 
glasgowspur said:
And yet lamela and Dele were in good posiions in and around the box and we couldn't or wouldn't find them.
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Seem to recall Eriksen nearly picked out Alli who was clean through but Alli missed the ball

Plus son and moura give us something different, a goal threat, trickery and pace. They both take people enjoy running at defences.
 
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