Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Bedfordspurs]

That may be so but on what are we basing the judgement he would have been a more worthwhile option than Llorente who is proven quality and could still come good? We are clutching at straws here based on Llorente not being a success so far and a couple of decent but not great cameos from Janssen.

Playing the percentages game I would still bet on Llorente coming good and scoring more goals given a run of games than Janssen.

Clearly Janssen wasn't even impressing Poch outside of games, during training. Poch is ruthless, as he should be but he is also fair, after all he gave Sissoko a chance something that seems incredible to many fans (not me BTW as I actually think Sissoko can be a decent player).

I think I’m right in saying that Llorente best ever season he didn’t score as many goals as Janssen has in his best season... for whatever that’s worth

Llorente has been a 1 in 3 striker his career but did have a better rate at Swansea all be it the goals were in batches of 2 quite a bit

Jansenn is a 1 in 2 at international level for a mediocre Dutch side and was better than that in club level before joining us

It’s fair to say Jansenn didn’t set the world alight but he actually got involved which more than can be said for Llorente which is my issue with him. Can handle him missing chances, but not him being lazy

 

[StephenH]

Is that because he was first choice a lot

It has to be.
Swansea for good or bad tailored their game to suit.
We are just never going to.

 

[Jurgen the German]

We're not even slightly a three legged horse. We are the 12th richest club in the world, with the 12th highest wage bill. I know that 5 of those 11 above us are in the league which is why I don't expect regular trophies. But to be ok with no trophies at all, during a time when we have amassed a great squad? I find that such a weird attitude.

And this is why. We have less resources than 5 of the domestic clubs (though more than the 2 clubs that finished above us in the CL last season and then the one that knocked us out of the EL). But we have managed to amass, using those more limited resources, a great squad. As far as fans go on here and Spurs fans in general, I'm perhaps not as bullish, not as hyperbolic about our players. But I read that we have the best striker in the league, if not the world. I see posters saying we have Eriksen, who's on a par with KDB/ Ozil. The best CM in the league. The best defence. The best keeper. How can we have all that and having the same attitude to trophies as Huddersfield might? Now, as it goes, I personally don't agree with much of that. But I do think we have the best cb pairing. The 2nd or 3rd best keeper in the league. Midfield is up there. Kane needs no explanation.

I've mentioned this before on this site. Literally nobody on this forum expects us to be sweeping all before us. Nobody expects us to even be winning trophies necessarily. But through a great bloody job by multiple people, we have assembled a squad that is more talented than the figures spent. Same as Dortmund when they were winning leagues and reaching CL finals. Same as Atletico..when they were winning leagues and reaching CL finals. Same as Monaco..when they won the league and reached the CL semi final last season. We've now finished above every single club in the league at some point in the past few years. I think it is probably fair to say we have better squads than Arsenal and Liverpool. Chelsea and Man Utd are arguable. We finished above Emirates Marketing Project for each of the past 2 seasons. Yet we still persist as if we are a three legged horse? Really?

Listen, like I said, I love the job Poch has done. I love our players. I love watching us play. I'm proud of what we're doing as a club. Even if we don't win a trophy in the next 5 seasons for example, I'll still look back on this period with fondness. But I will also look back on it with a feeling of missed opportunity. That we amassed a squad, above our pay grade so to speak, arguably 3rd best squad in the league (or even more if you're optimistic) and our best one for decades...and didn't manage to pick up any trophy. That would be disappointing for me. Fair enough if for you it wouldn't be, that's a difference of opinion I guess.

Agree with all of the above. I believe it was Alan Shearer who was critical of Poch after we lost to Chelsea in the FA cup semi final last season for saying that it was an achievement to be on the same level as Chelsea. Well yes it is an achievement but Shearer pointed out that we are a top team NOW and we shouldn't be happy just to be competing with the likes of Chelsea.

 

[Robspur12]

Agree with all of the above. I believe it was Alan Shearer who was critical of Poch after we lost to Chelsea in the FA cup semi final last season for saying that it was an achievement to be on the same level as Chelsea. Well yes it is an achievement but Shearer pointed out that we are a top team NOW and we shouldn't be happy just to be competing with the likes of Chelsea.

I agree with your sentiment mate and I certainly think it defeatist to suggest we cannot win anything; I don't personally subscribe to that view. In fact players will definitely leave if that is the case and I am sure Poch would not be content with just being an also ran. It may take a while but I will be disappointed to win nothing under Poch.

Having said that what Poch said after the Chelsea game was probably with a view to lift his players. He doesn't need to take advice from a clam like Shearer who was a total failure in his short stint in management.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think this summer we should go for George Hirst from Sheffield Wednesday. He is only just 19 so still very raw, but as well as very good technique and goalscoring he has the build that would enable him to play first team football already.

He has a horrendous attitude and Wednesday fans can't wait to get rid of him. He's not played any football in over a year, because he's in a stand-off over wages. He's demanding parity with the club's top earners, despite only having played 1 senior game.

He's as self-destructive as his dad, who is a truly horrible person (I've played with him before). Junior is the antithesis of the Tottenham Way that McDermott and Poch are developing. I'm confident he won't be in the game by the age of 23.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He has a horrendous attitude and Wednesday fans can't wait to get rid of him. He's not played any football in over a year, because he's in a stand-off over wages. He's demanding parity with the club's top earners, despite only having played 1 senior game.

He's as self-destructive as his dad, who is a truly horrible person (I've played with him before). Junior is the antithesis of the Tottenham Way that McDermott and Poch are developing. I'm confident he won't be in the game by the age of 23.

His Dad was a brilliant player.

The contract stand off at Sheffield Wednesday is unfortunate and in situations like that I always have to question the players agent as the last year has done neither Wednesday nor the player any good. I wouldn't write him off as a result of that contract stand off however. I think he will still be in the game at 23, he will get a move at the end of this season and go from there.

 

[Gutter Boy]

His Dad was a brilliant player.

The contract stand off at Sheffield Wednesday is unfortunate and in situations like that I always have to question the players agent as the last year has done neither Wednesday nor the player any good. I wouldn't write him off as a result of that contract stand off however. I think he will still be in the game at 23, he will get a move at the end of this season and go from there.

Not the way he's already drinking (like his dad). He's quickly going the Michael Johnson way of things. There's no hunger (except for McDonalds)

 

[Raziel]

Not sure why people are back to debating Jans

We're not even slightly a three legged horse. We are the 12th richest club in the world, with the 12th highest wage bill. I know that 5 of those 11 above us are in the league which is why I don't expect regular trophies. But to be ok with no trophies at all, during a time when we have amassed a great squad? I find that such a weird attitude.

And this is why. We have less resources than 5 of the domestic clubs (though more than the 2 clubs that finished above us in the CL last season and then the one that knocked us out of the EL). But we have managed to amass, using those more limited resources, a great squad. As far as fans go on here and Spurs fans in general, I'm perhaps not as bullish, not as hyperbolic about our players. But I read that we have the best striker in the league, if not the world. I see posters saying we have Eriksen, who's on a par with KDB/ Ozil. The best CM in the league. The best defence. The best keeper. How can we have all that and having the same attitude to trophies as Huddersfield might? Now, as it goes, I personally don't agree with much of that. But I do think we have the best cb pairing. The 2nd or 3rd best keeper in the league. Midfield is up there. Kane needs no explanation.

I've mentioned this before on this site. Literally nobody on this forum expects us to be sweeping all before us. Nobody expects us to even be winning trophies necessarily. But through a great bloody job by multiple people, we have assembled a squad that is more talented than the figures spent. Same as Dortmund when they were winning leagues and reaching CL finals. Same as Atletico..when they were winning leagues and reaching CL finals. Same as Monaco..when they won the league and reached the CL semi final last season. We've now finished above every single club in the league at some point in the past few years. I think it is probably fair to say we have better squads than Arsenal and Liverpool. Chelsea and Man Utd are arguable. We finished above Emirates Marketing Project for each of the past 2 seasons. Yet we still persist as if we are a three legged horse? Really?

Listen, like I said, I love the job Poch has done. I love our players. I love watching us play. I'm proud of what we're doing as a club. Even if we don't win a trophy in the next 5 seasons for example, I'll still look back on this period with fondness. But I will also look back on it with a feeling of missed opportunity. That we amassed a squad, above our pay grade so to speak, arguably 3rd best squad in the league (or even more if you're optimistic) and our best one for decades...and didn't manage to pick up any trophy. That would be disappointing for me. Fair enough if for you it wouldn't be, that's a difference of opinion I guess.

Mate, I don't disagree with you entirely, however you are cherry picking

- Monaco, Dortmund, Athletico play in much easier leagues, with winter breaks, they don't have 5 or 6 equals/better teams, nor 14 others capable of beating the top teams on their day to compete with.
- You make the same point and miss the same things others do with the first 11 comparison, would/could we win the league/FA/Bunny Cup if our first 11 played every game? yes, but it's not 11 players that win you things. Look at the last 2 years and who City/Chelsea/United/Scum (Lacazette is a bench player for them even now) can bring off the bench, that's why we are a 3 legged horse. No real backup for Kane, Eriksen, Son, Dembele and our pay structure hurts us there, we can't pay someone 140K to warm the bench
- Can we still succeed = yes, but we need a little luck/circumstance. If we had the Scum's cup draws of the last few years, I'm sure we would have won something. This year, the draw to FA has been kind to us, we need to convert that to at least a SF, but we will get a tough 2 games still (not going to be playing Hull in final)

 

[Jurgen the German]

Not the way he's already drinking (like his dad). He's quickly going the Michael Johnson way of things. There's no hunger (except for McDonalds)

That last sentence made me laugh out loud in my office.

 

[Lemonade Money]

That last sentence made me laugh out loud in my office.

Have you considered seeking help?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Not sure why people are back to debating Jans


Mate, I don't disagree with you entirely, however you are cherry picking

- Monaco, Dortmund, Athletico play in much easier leagues, with winter breaks, they don't have 5 or 6 equals/better teams, nor 14 others capable of beating the top teams on their day to compete with.
- You make the same point and miss the same things others do with the first 11 comparison, would/could we win the league/FA/Bunny Cup if our first 11 played every game? yes, but it's not 11 players that win you things. Look at the last 2 years and who City/Chelsea/United/Scum (Lacazette is a bench player for them even now) can bring off the bench, that's why we are a 3 legged horse. No real backup for Kane, Eriksen, Son, Dembele and our pay structure hurts us there, we can't pay someone 140K to warm the bench
- Can we still succeed = yes, but we need a little luck/circumstance. If we had the Scum's cup draws of the last few years, I'm sure we would have won something. This year, the draw to FA has been kind to us, we need to convert that to at least a SF, but we will get a tough 2 games still (not going to be playing Hull in final)

Atletico Madrid won the league playing in the same league as Barcelona and Real Madrid! Money aside, they are arguably the two biggest clubs in the world, to finish above both of them is an incredible achievement. Monaco won the league instead of financially doped PSG. Dortmund won back to back titles, including a league and cup double. I'm not convinced those leagues are "much easier". Maybe physically the Premier League is tougher but it's such a subjective argument, ultimately I think it depends what you like. The Premier League is definitely the most entertaining and the most exciting league but I'm not convinced it is the best.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

As you say - Athletico won against two teams. Effectively, the rest of the league is fodder.

Id argue similar of France and Germany.

The premiership, however, has a game virtually every week where a top side can lose.

 

[Jurgen the German]

That's a bit harsh. Sevilla and Valencia are two very good sides usually. Bilbao are normally pretty good. Real are 4th this season. It's not like all 20 teams in the PL are top quality there is a lot of pony sides in our league too.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Im not saying all of the prem is quality, but I am saying EVERY game requires absolute focus and a good performance or even the lowest team can beat you.

Ive seen plenty of La Liga games, and - frankly - most are just a procession. For Barca or Madrid to lose they REALLY have to be off, most games they just turn up and the result falls in their lap.

 

[braineclipse]

Im not saying all of the prem is quality, but I am saying EVERY game requires absolute focus and a good performance or even the lowest team can beat you.

Ive seen plenty of La Liga games, and - frankly - most are just a procession. For Barca or Madrid to lose they REALLY have to be off, most games they just turn up and the result falls in their lap.

Part of that is the quality of Barca and Real compared to the top PL sides. Now we're seeing City getting close to that kind of level and they're similarly dominant against the bottom half of the PL.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

For me the comparison is Barca/Real vs the rest of La Liga. The gap is ridiculous. Relatively speaking its like the old days of Rangers and Celtic.

In the premiership, I agree, City seem to be pulling similar (though not as bad, yet), but the rest of the league still doesnt have that major disparity.

Look at it, places 2-6 are competing for 2-4 tooth and nail, and on any given day the bottom teams can get a result against these competing sides.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not the way he's already drinking (like his dad). He's quickly going the Michael Johnson way of things. There's no hunger (except for McDonalds)

That's a shame. I had a friend playing at Sheff Wednesday back when they were managed by Trevor Francis and finished 3rd in the final ever 1st division table. My mate was teetotal but there was a big drinking culture at Wednesday at the time - mainly led by Viv Anderson, John Sheridan, David Hirst and Nigel Worthington. I remember one game where Wednesday had to replace Viv Anderson from the submitted team before the game had started, they stated that this was because he had injured himself in the warm up, but he was actually still drunk from the night before.

With the talent that he had I would've hoped that David Hirst would've realised that his own career could've been so much more had he lived a decent lifestyle and instilled that into his son. True shame if this hasn't happened.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Atletico Madrid won the league playing in the same league as Barcelona and Real Madrid! Money aside, they are arguably the two biggest clubs in the world, to finish above both of them is an incredible achievement. Monaco won the league instead of financially doped PSG. Dortmund won back to back titles, including a league and cup double. I'm not convinced those leagues are "much easier". Maybe physically the Premier League is tougher but it's such a subjective argument, ultimately I think it depends what you like. The Premier League is definitely the most entertaining and the most exciting league but I'm not convinced it is the best.

That is all true, but (I think?) all of those teams spent a few years building first... A few years of successive Champions League qualifications and growth through that. We are currently going through that building stage ourselves. At the moment it is more important for us to qualify for the CL than win the FA or League Cup.

Qualifying for the CL in a number of successive seasons will boost our profile and our finances, this in turn will allow us to build a more expensive squad on higher wages and then once that has happened the club will be able to challenge better for the domestic trophies without it having to hurt our premier league campaign.

 

[P.D.]

I definitely expected more from Llorente, I assume we went for experience so we had someone who could do more coming off the bench or in pressure situations but he's had some big misses. Flipside is he doesn't play and looks like the type of player who needs regular game time to get up to speed. I'm surprised in the odd game we haven't started 2 up top, it worked well in Madrid and is surely worth a go against some of the lower league teams.

 

[Gutter Boy]

That's a shame. I had a friend playing at Sheff Wednesday back when they were managed by Trevor Francis and finished 3rd in the final ever 1st division table. My mate was teetotal but there was a big drinking culture at Wednesday at the time - mainly led by Viv Anderson, John Sheridan, David Hirst and Nigel Worthington. I remember one game where Wednesday had to replace Viv Anderson from the submitted team before the game had started, they stated that this was because he had injured himself in the warm up, but he was actually still drunk from the night before.

With the talent that he had I would've hoped that David Hirst would've realised that his own career could've been so much more had he lived a decent lifestyle and instilled that into his son. True shame if this hasn't happened.

Hirst was neck-and-neck with Shearer to succeed Lineker as England's main man in about 1993 (there was a match against France where they were given 45 minutes each to stake their claim). It really is a 'what could have been' story. I've played a few exhibition matches with him in recent years, and he really is an odious old soak

My favourite drunken anecdote is one of Ray Parlour's. He was in the matchday squad but had not made the bench, so knocked back 4-5 in the boxes. Someone got injured in warm-up, so he was suddenly promoted to the bench. The unaware manager later brought him on.