*** Tottenham vs Rochdale OMT ***

[braineclipse]

Have a look at the image below - this is just as the players start to move to cover those who are unmarked.

View attachment 4179

Alderweireld has to move forward because the player in front of him can receive the ball to feet and needs covering. So he moves forward enough to block any run if the ball comes in to feet and still gives him a chance of blocking the header (which he does to some extent). Foyth has to cover forward when he sees Alderweireld go (not knowing he will stop his run) because if Alderweireld goes all the way to the man in front, the one in front of Foyth would be able to receive the ball to feet.

That leaves Rose with a choice - mark a man who can only receive the ball to his head or cover one or both of the two players who are about to be completely free in the box and able to receive the ball to feet. He shouldn't have been left in that position, but if he expects to be first choice at a club at our level he should be making better decisions.


[emoji14] That's a good one.


I'm sure I do. I'd also rather employ an intelligent beginner than a trained fool to assist me.


I've agreed that Rose shouldn't be left alone there - I didn't call them out because I wasn't watching very carefully and didn't see who left them. In fact, if you'd asked who was still on the pitch at that point I'd have struggled to tell you.

What I did see when the commentator got all excited and I looked up, was Rose getting dragged inside when it was the least good choice of all the ones he had - not a rare occurrence for him.


No, that's because you value halfwits training halfwits over natural intelligence - I prefer the opposite. Obviously, the right people being trained in the right manner by the right people is a positive. But there are too many halfwits (and I'm being generous by half there) involved in football, especially in the UK, for that training and experience to have any merit by itself. What worth is a badge Tim Sherwood is bright enough to earn?

I think that's harsh on Rose mate. A split second decision with several players to mark. He makes a decent decision, but it ends up being the wrong one with the way the ball fell.

 

[scaramanga]

I think that's harsh on Rose mate. A split second decision with several players to mark. He makes a decent decision, but it ends up being the wrong one with the way the ball fell.

I remember decades before xG being told to cover the man who could play it from feet rather than one who could head the ball. There's no good reason for that to have changed - it's an easy decision.

 

[milo]

I don't disagree with that but we haven't won a trophy in 10 years. Sooner or later we have to win a trophy with this team. I'm not saying Poch should prioritise the FA Cup over the CL and Premier League, far from it, but we have the squad to challenge on more multiple fronts now. No one knows what will happen in the next couple of years but it looks likely that Emirates Marketing Project will dominate the league for the foreseeable future. The FA Cup and the league cup represent our best chances of silverware.

I think that is what we are doing

 

[the dza]

As much as I have criticised Llorente, I would still start him in the replay. I'd start the same team that played Rochdale away, meaning that the team that played Juventus away starts v Palace. There is then no issue of there being an extra game, infact we'll benefit from Wanyama etc getting another 90 mins under their belt. That same lineup will comfortably win the replay.

*edit -- actually, I'd like us to start Trippier v Palace and Aurier v Rochdale. That's the only change I'd make.

 

[metalgear]

llorente needs to lead the attack line and literally use his head more to be more effective

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

As much as I have criticised Llorente, I would still start him in the replay. I'd start the same team that played Rochdale away, meaning that the team that played Juventus away starts v Palace. There is then no issue of there being an extra game, infact we'll benefit from Wanyama etc getting another 90 mins under their belt. That same lineup will comfortably win the replay.

*edit -- actually, I'd like us to start Trippier v Palace and Aurier v Rochdale. That's the only change I'd make.

Id drop Llorente and play Son up front. Bring in Lamela to play with Moura behind.

And Id drop Sissoko. Would rather give a prospect a run.

 

[StephenH]

I think that is fundamentally an entirely fudged up an unacceptable thing.

The excuses for him have poured out all season, getting more and more extreme.

To arrive at a point where you effectively say he cannot be compared to other players says it all.

Im not interested in reviving the whole Sissoko debate, but lets be frank, he was shown up by youth players at a club 60+ places below us.

It's all been said. After his first 6 games I was so disappointed I was raging...but what's the point. I now have a very low bar set for the guy. Better for my blood pressure.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

It's all been said. After his first 6 games I was so disappointed I was raging...but what's the point. I now have a very low bar set for the guy. Better for my blood pressure.

While I understand it, that warping of reality is what leads to people defending him as if he is actually someway GHod enough.

Its the ....for Sissoko caveat, its appalling that its even a conversation we have to have.

 

[the dza]

Id drop Llorente and play Son up front. Bring in Lamela to play with Moura behind.

And Id drop Sissoko. Would rather give a prospect a run.

But would you then want Lamela to start v Juventus? Coz then you'd be asking him to start (potentially) sun-weds-sat-weds. Llorente can have one last start imo, bin him for the quarter finals onwards.

 

[alekaras]

Worse than a loss.

??? You do realize we have an excellent second string team that needs game time? This is not the past couple of years.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Im not set on Lamela having to start games yet. While its great to have him back we managed just fine without him.

I am set on Llorente NOT starting though, because he has proven useless.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Have a look at the image below - this is just as the players start to move to cover those who are unmarked.

View attachment 4179

Alderweireld has to move forward because the player in front of him can receive the ball to feet and needs covering. So he moves forward enough to block any run if the ball comes in to feet and still gives him a chance of blocking the header (which he does to some extent). Foyth has to cover forward when he sees Alderweireld go (not knowing he will stop his run) because if Alderweireld goes all the way to the man in front, the one in front of Foyth would be able to receive the ball to feet.

That leaves Rose with a choice - mark a man who can only receive the ball to his head or cover one or both of the two players who are about to be completely free in the box and able to receive the ball to feet. He shouldn't have been left in that position, but if he expects to be first choice at a club at our level he should be making better decisions.

I've agreed that Rose shouldn't be left alone there - I didn't call them out because I wasn't watching very carefully and didn't see who left them. In fact, if you'd asked who was still on the pitch at that point I'd have struggled to tell you.

What I did see when the commentator got all excited and I looked up, was Rose getting dragged inside when it was the least good choice of all the ones he had - not a rare occurrence for him.

Scara - go back 3 seconds from that image you posted and you see the goal scorer starting to make his run. Wanyama is slightly goal side of him at this point and looking directly at him. He simply can't be bothered to track the run, completely inexcusable and the direct cause of the goal. If Wanyama tracks the run, Rochdale do not get a numerical advantge in the box and it is almost impossible for them to score. Here is the image showing that:

Now here is an image of our positioning as the cross is hit:

Alderweireld, Foyth and Rose are pretty much in perfect positions to defend the opposition's three players in the box. They are in a good line, all goal side and all can see both their player and the ball. Any coach would be pleased with their positions in this scenario with the ball being crossed into the box.

The problem is the overload that Rochdale have engineered due to several of our players deciding that they are above having to defend. Blaming Rose for that goal as you did, shows a lack of knowledge here, the goalscorer is clearly Wanyama's player to pick up and the goal a direct result of him failing to do that.

 

[scaramanga]

Scara - go back 3 seconds from that image you posted and you see the goal scorer starting to make his run. Wanyama is slightly goal side of him at this point and looking directly at him. He simply can't be bothered to track the run, completely inexcusable and the direct cause of the goal. If Wanyama tracks the run, Rochdale do not get a numerical advantge in the box and it is almost impossible for them to score. Here is the image showing that:

Now here is an image of our positioning as the cross is hit:

Alderweireld, Foyth and Rose are pretty much in perfect positions to defend the opposition's three players in the box. They are in a good line, all goal side and all can see both their player and the ball. Any coach would be pleased with their positions in this scenario with the ball being crossed into the box.

The problem is the overload that Rochdale have engineered due to several of our players deciding that they are above having to defend. Blaming Rose for that goal as you did, shows a lack of knowledge here, the goalscorer is clearly Wanyama's player to pick up and the goal a direct result of him failing to do that.

I've not denied that the problems started in midfield or that Rose was initially lined up in the right place - that's not a lack of knowledge, it's a lack of you reading what I posted in direct response to you.

What I've criticised (which doesn't show from a still picture) is Rose's poor decision making or lack of awareness to leave the two players who can receive the ball to feet and mark the player who can only receive the ball to his head. That's just poor decision making or a complete lack of awareness of what's going on in the box.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

We have 7/8 players who can come in a do a good job when we've got most of the first team playing, but our shadow XI are not a team and struggle to put a decent performance together, I would have thought we've seen this before over the last few years and dont understand why anyone thinks it will be any different. Its always going to be a problem when your reserves dont play competitive games regularly. Playing against one an other doesnt provide the right preparation.

 

[Raziel]

We have 7/8 players who can come in a do a good job when we've got most of the first team playing, but our shadow XI are not a team and struggle to put a decent performance together, I would have thought we've seen this before over the last few years and dont understand why anyone thinks it will be any different. Its always going to be a problem when your reserves dont play competitive games regularly. Playing against one an other doesnt provide the right preparation.

That team had 3 issues that stopped them from blowing away Rochdale with ease

- Lack of a playmaker, with our current team, either Eriksen or Lamela needs to start, in this case it should have been Lamela
- Llorente's ineffectiveness
- A few key players seriously under par performances - Llorente, Toby, Rose, Wanyama, Winks, Son all come to mind.

Start Lamela, Winks and Wanyama not have a mare and that would have been a stroll, regardless of play time as shadow 11.

 

[Raziel]

BTW, just to add

- If you watched that game and your key observation was "Sissoko was brick", I really don't know what to say

He wasn't even the 6th worse player on that pitch for us, and that has nothing to do with low expectations, purely performance

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I did watch the game. And I did think he was poor. Thats no comment on any other player, simply an observation about him.

His passing and touch were especially bad on the day. And yes, I know he got an assist.

 

[milo]

That team had 3 issues that stopped them from blowing away Rochdale with ease

- Lack of a playmaker, with our current team, either Eriksen or Lamela needs to start, in this case it should have been Lamela
- Llorente's ineffectiveness
- A few key players seriously under par performances - Llorente, Toby, Rose, Wanyama, Winks, Son all come to mind.

Start Lamela, Winks and Wanyama not have a mare and that would have been a stroll, regardless of play time as shadow 11.

And players being unsure of their footing. That massively disadvantages a passing game.

 

[Raziel]

I did watch the game. And I did think he was poor. Thats no comment on any other player, simply an observation about him.

His passing and touch were especially bad on the day. And yes, I know he got an assist.

I'm not arguing for him, I don't think Sissoko is a good player.

However, I watched the game and thought
- Winks had a stinker (not his first since returning)
- Llorente could/should be replaced by an academy player
- Wanyama is miles off getting his first team spot back
- Poch knew exactly what he was doing by not playing Toby against Juve
- Rose was slow, ineffective and took 75 minutes to get involved
- Son had one of his off days at the office

Yet half the comments are about Sissoko .. that mate is purely bias, and looking for it.

 

[alekaras]

nah. he's what, 33 and will be shipped out in the summer?

i understand the rational behind signing him, but it hasnt worked. if he was showing effort and character itd be one thing, but he isnt even willing to put himself about.

there is nothing to gain from giving him more appearances. if kane were to get injured, we'd be better off with moura, son, alli or lamela up there, or going without a striker.

Wow, aren't you a ray of sunshine. Been reading your posts and wishing you had continued to not log into the site. Of course you have the right to your opinions, but man are they negative and downbeat.

As for Llorente, he didn't have a stellar game, but his link-up play (considering the wobbly pitch) wasn't as bad. The chance he missed early on is one he created himself by faking out the defender. Other players would have shot right away and had it blocked. And the reason he missed was because the keeper was covering that side of the goal and he had to be pretty accurate with his shot. So he missed. And Harry headed straight at Buffon from 6 yards out a few days ago. Let's crucify him too. And maybe, just maybe, he is following the instructions Poch has given him. He is naturally slow, so to expect him to do the same things Kane does is a bit of stretch. Perhaps Poch just wants him to occupy defenders and do lay-offs, rather than being the focal point of the attack. With Son and Moura on the pitch he really doesn't have to be.

And I'm not even going to address the Sissoko slagging. Others have covered it. I only hope that you are not a WHL regular. With fans like you who needs opponents.