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Dele Alli

Modric THFC said:
And yet United kept picking him game after game. Why because of his drive and competitiveness. Without that he would be another Mark Kinsella, Matt Holland or Liam Miller. Take that out of Alli and you're left with Jenas or Joe Cole.
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Do you really believe that? I agree to a point but his football ability is largely why he's been so successful, not his poor temperament. People make the same excuses for Rooney. Surely he can be aggresive and show competitiveness without kicking/elbowing/making leg breaking tackles?
 
awesome dawson said:
Scholes to me was more of a clumsy tackler than a dirty fudger like Keane. Alli is too skillful to be as clumsy as Scholes, he's got a short fuse in the heat of the battle, comes with age to a certain extent but as many others have said, I wouldn't change him.
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Scholes was a dirty clam who knew exactly what he was doing. If he was foreign and didn't play for United he would have got twice as many red cards.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Do you really believe that? I agree to a point but his football ability is largely why he's been so successful, not his poor temperament. People make the same excuses for Rooney. Surely he can be aggresive and show competitiveness without kicking/elbowing/making leg breaking tackles?
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I'm not so sure. Jenas had great footballing ability - the man was technically great, able to score, dribble, pass and hit free-kicks with skill and verve. The CC semi against Arsenal showed what a complete player he was. He was also a fairly hard worker, at least compared to some of the team-mates he had to play with during his time here. But there was always something lacking in him, that little bit of desire, hunger, fight and a refusal to lose that separates the great from the acceptably good.

Now, you can say that such a desire and competitive nature need not manifest itself in silly challenges or angry kicks out, and you may be right. But it's a delicate thing, managing mentalities. And you might well find that such a hard edge, far from being an unnecessary bit of baggage, is actually key to Alli maintaining that sort of fight and verve that keeps him above the rest. Managing personalities isn't a science - it's an art. And I think we ought to be very careful when deconstructing Dele's.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I'm not so sure. Jenas had great footballing ability - the man was technically great, able to score, dribble, pass and hit free-kicks with skill and verve. The CC semi against Arsenal showed what a complete player he was. He was also a fairly hard worker, at least compared to some of the team-mates he had to play with during his time here. But there was always something lacking in him, that little bit of desire, hunger, fight and a refusal to lose that separates the great from the acceptably good.

Now, you can say that such a desire and competitive nature need not manifest itself in silly challenges or angry kicks out, and you may be right. But it's a delicate thing, managing mentalities. And you might well find that such a hard edge, far from being an unnecessary bit of baggage, is actually key to Alli maintaining that sort of fight and verve that keeps him above the rest. Managing personalities isn't a science - it's an art. And I think we ought to be very careful when deconstructing Dele's.
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That's the thing, he doesn't even need to change a whole lot. Knowing Poch, I'm sure he wouldn't want him to lose that edge, he just needs to say listen Dele, you can be aggressive, wind people up, be cynical within reason and provided it doesn't cross the line, just don't make crazy, leg breaking tackles and elbow people. I don't know why it's such a hard concept for players like him and Rooney to grasp.
 
Jurgen the German said:
That's the thing, he doesn't even need to change a whole lot. Knowing Poch, I'm sure he wouldn't want him to lose that edge, he just needs to say listen Dele, you can be aggressive, wind people up, be cynical within reason and provided it doesn't cross the line, just don't make crazy, leg breaking tackles and elbow people. I don't know why it's such a hard concept for players like him and Rooney to grasp.
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Eh. I'd like it to be the best of both worlds and go 'you can make heavy tackles and elbow people *as long as* you can get away with it without a red - otherwise, clear off and ask Dier to do it and take a booking in your stead.'
 
DubaiSpur said:
I'm not so sure. Jenas had great footballing ability - the man was technically great, able to score, dribble, pass and hit free-kicks with skill and verve. The CC semi against Arsenal showed what a complete player he was. He was also a fairly hard worker, at least compared to some of the team-mates he had to play with during his time here. But there was always something lacking in him, that little bit of desire, hunger, fight and a refusal to lose that separates the great from the acceptably good.

Now, you can say that such a desire and competitive nature need not manifest itself in silly challenges or angry kicks out, and you may be right. But it's a delicate thing, managing mentalities. And you might well find that such a hard edge, far from being an unnecessary bit of baggage, is actually key to Alli maintaining that sort of fight and verve that keeps him above the rest. Managing personalities isn't a science - it's an art. And I think we ought to be very careful when deconstructing Dele's.
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Jenas had the lot other than the drive I agree 100%

He got caught in the trap of never realising how good he was IMO
 
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billyiddo said:
these comparisons to Wheelchair are pointless - Alli practically plays as a second striker whilst Wheelchair was/is a deeper laying central midfielder
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I agree with the "is" in your sentence above, but not the "was". Wheelchair was originally an attacking midfielder and only really moved deeper in the last couple of years.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I agree with the "is" in your sentence above, but not the "was". Wheelchair was originally an attacking midfielder and only really moved deeper in the last couple of years.
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point taken, but did he ever play a role similar to Alli? not to my recollection, he was always more of a creator than a goal scorer - in terms of role on the pitch
 
billyiddo said:
point taken, but did he ever play a role similar to Alli? not to my recollection, he was always more of a creator than a goal scorer - in terms of role on the pitch
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Agreed. Alli is often the player closest to Kane. I wish we'd stop with these comparisons to Gerrard/ Lampard/ Scholes/ Wheelchair (looks very out of place in that list haha). Alli is Alli and I'd prefer to just see how he can do as an individual, rather than always looking for comparisons.
 
Jenas always frustrated because so often he seemed to play within himself. He'd play the conservative ball, when an ambitious one that he was capable of playing was on. To make matters worse, he always seemed to up his game against Le Arse, which just went to show that he had it in him. Back to Alli, what do you think he's worth in the transfer market now?
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Jenas always frustrated because so often he seemed to play within himself. He'd play the conservative ball, when an ambitious one that he was capable of playing was on. To make matters worse, he always seemed to up his game against Le Arse, which just went to show that he had it in him. Back to Alli, what do you think he's worth in the transfer market now?
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I have fond memories of Jenas vs. Arsenal.
 
billyiddo said:
point taken, but did he ever play a role similar to Alli? not to my recollection, he was always more of a creator than a goal scorer - in terms of role on the pitch
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He's played off the striker quite a bit for Bournemouth this season -http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jack-Wheelchair/leistungsdaten/spieler/74223

I do think he's much better suited playing deeper though and isn't really comparable to Alli in any way.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Jenas had the lot other than the drive I agree 100%

He got caught in the trap of never realising how good he was IMO
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Actually disagree (re him not knowing), its funny the comparison doesn't come up more often.

Jenas is actually the closest player to Dele I've seen play for Spurs (or anyone else), try not to compare to your perception of JJ, compare to the JJ we saw in a lot of games against the Scum, an attacking midfielder (who didn't completely shirk defensive duties) with great athletic ability, great engine, skill on ball and a goal scoring threat.

JJ's issue was lack of drive, he was comfortable in his level and at club. To be fair to him, that was an issue/attitude that applied to more than just him at club (Lennon is the other prime example). A young JJ & Lennon under Poch would probably have turned out very different.
 
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