70 thoughts on “Match ratings – Manchester United

  1. Mason one of the highest rated? Don't think so – it was his inability to move over constantly that caused all of our problems. I am sure Bentaleb will be one the one marked down for the assist to Rooney, but other then that he was the better of the midfield two, and it's in midfield where we lost this game.

  2. Lloris – 3

    Walker – 2
    Dier – 2
    Vertonghen – 3
    Rose – 5

    Mason – 4
    Bentaleb – 3

    Eriksen – 3
    Townsend – 2
    Chadli – 2

    Kane – 3

    Subs:
    Dembele – 5
    Lamela – 3
    Adebayor – 3

    Terrible, just terrible. Haven't seen a worse Spurs game since 0-4 against Liverpool under AVB – and then we even tried to do something.

  3. Oohhffff. I'm not a hater, I like all our players, there's no agenda here, but it was shocking:

    Lloris. 4
    Walker 1.5 – really like him but really?! The only reason he gets more than a one is because he avoided a red card.
    Dier 2
    Verts 3
    Rose 4
    Mason 2
    Bentalab 3
    Chadli 3
    Townsend 3
    Erikson 3
    Kane 4

    Moussa 4 – should have started
    Lamela 2
    Ade 3 – almost marked him down for giving it the biggun whilst we still had the ball and in attack after he lost it and he was just looking in to the crowd for a few seconds (where does this ego come from, what planet does he operate on half the time?!)

    Poch 2 – something wasn't right from the start, I didn't agree with two or three of his starters, he gets a point for bringing on moussa after 30 mins.

    That was amazingly bad.

  4. Whole team first half – 4
    Whole team second half – 6

    I think it was just one of those games that is going to happen to a young inconsistent team like us. No one particularly stood out as worse or better than the rest. It was also United's best performance in 2 years. A shame we didn't test their appalling defence though

    I did take heart from how we solidified in the second half and showed some resilience. Remember how we used to completely collapse in comparable games under AVB and Timmeh last season

    And at least Southampton dropped points too.

  5. Young team, inevitable off day that will happen (accept, move on)

    Poch, took a risk with option of Townsend/Dier instead of Dembele/Fazio (which his only other real alternative), was happy to see him make the very early sub, bad day for him

    Actually don't understand the ratings against Rose or Lloris. Rose to me was our best player, covered a lot of stuff for other people, put his foot in, was competitive the entire game, Lloris was not at fault for any of the goals

    Off day for Kane, looked tired, got bullied.

    Mason/Bentaleb struggled .. hopefully learn from it

    Interesting to see Ade, would like to see an Ade/Kane combo at some point before season ends

  6. why cant we cricitize lloris. hes meant to make himself hard to beat but once again he stayed on hes line.
    spurs have had the same back 4 for a long time but man u have injurys at the back yet still keep more clean sheets then us because de gea the best in the league

  7. superpav

    why cant we cricitize lloris. hes meant to make himself hard to beat but once again he stayed on hes line.
    spurs have had the same back 4 for a long time but man u have injurys at the back yet still keep more clean sheets then us because de gea the best in the league

    Mate if you think the difference between the sides today or anyday is the keepers .. not worth a conversation

    De Gea is not better than Lloris, he has fudging Carrick & Fellaini in front of their back 4

  8. Rose was good'ish, Dembele OK and Lamela and Kane looked like they gave a brick at least even though they were both poor.

    That match was the death of a thousand cuts. Every single player made error after error. Mostly wrong choices in possession, nobody showing for the ball, no one making runs in behind, lack of application, no pressure on the man in possession, and… ah fudge it. It's a reality check for the coach as well as the players.

  9. Raziel

    Mate if you think the difference between the sides today or anyday is the keepers .. not worth a conversation

    De Gea is not better than Lloris, he has fudgeing Carrick & Fellaini in front of their back 4

    but hes not had carrick in front of him all season lol
    have you seen man u defence this season full of kids and not been able to play same team for more then 2 games
    im not saying we lost because of lloris
    im saying that spurs fans have nobody to blame anymore
    it used to be all galas or kaboul or chirches fault .

    i would drop walker and play a proper right back who defends first.

  10. superpav

    why cant we cricitize lloris. hes meant to make himself hard to beat but once again he stayed on hes line.
    spurs have had the same back 4 for a long time but man u have injurys at the back yet still keep more clean sheets then us because de gea the best in the league

    The protection in fro t of the back four is the biggest difference imo.

  11. superpav

    but hes not had carrick in front of him all season lol
    have you seen man u defence this season full of kids and not been able to play same team for more then 2 games
    im not saying we lost because of lloris
    im saying that spurs fans have nobody to blame anymore
    it used to be all galas or kaboul or chirches fault .

    i would drop walker and play a proper right back who defends first.

    Team played poorly .. I would agree Walker in particular had a mare

    Manure has Da Gea, Carrick, Rooney, Mata, RVP, Falcao, Di Maria, while they all may have not been available all season, lets not pretend they have a brick squad full of kids ..

  12. Raziel

    Young team, inevitable off day that will happen (accept, move on)

    Poch, took a risk with option of Townsend/Dier instead of Dembele/Fazio (which his only other real alternative), was happy to see him make the very early sub, bad day for him

    Actually don't understand the ratings against Rose or Lloris. Rose to me was our best player, covered a lot of stuff for other people, put his foot in, was competitive the entire game, Lloris was not at fault for any of the goals

    Off day for Kane, looked tired, got bullied.

    Mason/Bentaleb struggled .. hopefully learn from it

    Interesting to see Ade, would like to see an Ade/Kane combo at some point before season ends

    Agree Rose mostly had a decent game but Lloris was not at his very best today, could have done better for two of the goals. The Fellaini shot he stuck his just foot out instead of diving. The Rooney goal was tougher for sure but at his brilliant best he'd probably have got a firmer contact and deflected it past the post.

    Lloris 5 – might have done better with two of the goals, see above

    Walker 3 – nightmare for much of the game but improved late on
    Dier 2 – destroyed for two of the goals, little boy in a big man's game
    Vertonghen 3 – poor distribution, hate the way he shirks responsibility
    Rose 6 – only Tottenham player to assert himself today

    Mason 4 –
    Bentaleb 4 – disastrous pass for Rooney's goal and like most around him bullied out of it

    Townsend 2 – useless defensively, far too easily knocked off the ball going forward
    Eriksen 4 – looked strangely out of his depth until late on
    Chadli 3 – another who totally failed to impose himself

    Kane 4 – poor game not helped by finding himself surrounded by red shirts and isolated

    Subs

    Dembele 5 – did okay but by then United were sitting back, holding on to what they'd got
    Lamela 2 – fudging NEVER EVER beats his man. NEVER.
    Adebayor 4 – looked up for it but unable to make a difference

    Poch 5 – Hindsight is 20-20 vision but given he can mix it physically, Fazio should have gone up against Fellaini. At least Poch was quick to replace the struggling Townsend early on to give us a bit more bite in midfield problem was the dye had already been cast.

  13. Raziel

    Manure has Da Gea, Carrick, Rooney, Mata, RVP, Falcao, Di Maria, while they all may have not been available all season, lets not pretend they have a crud squad full of kids ..

    I can't help thinking that we would have faired better if they had not had suspensions and injuries. LVG was almost forced into playing a balanced team.

  14. Lloris 5 – Should have dived for the first goal.

    Walker 3 – Terrible performance. Still needs to improve his decision making and positioning. And get a football brain, fast.
    Dier 3 – Souness was bang on. Him and Vertonghen are nice, pretty ball playing CB's who don't want to get in amongst it. Criminal defending for the two goals.
    Vertonghen 4 – Better than Dier, but no leadership as he is the most senior CB we have.
    Rose 5 – Better than the rest.

    Bentaleb 4 – Him and Mason looked like children playing against grown ups.
    Mason 4 – See above.

    Eriksen 5 – Not effective I accept that. Still think people need to evaluate the expectations about him. He is not the kind of player YET that will dominate a game like Modric, he is an impact player and will have games where he doesn't always impact in them.
    Chadli 4 – Poor.
    Townsend 3 – Rightly subbed.

    Kane 5 – No service. Not his day.

    Can't really blame Poch too much for the selection, with the exception of Fazio. Agree 100% with Scara, he should have played to mark Fellaini.

    Our defence is woeful and needs addressing even more than the lack of goals apart from Kane and Eriksen! 6th worst defence in the league, it's amazing we are still in the mix for the top 4 with that kind of record. It's the only real blight on Poch's record so far. I accept he needs time, but we haven't improved one iota defensively as a unit, too many brainfarts.

  15. I know it was an off day for most of the team but I dont put too much blame on Mason and Bentaleb as when Townsend or Chadli inevitably lost the ball they were outnumbered 4 or 5 to 2 and were getting pressed and forced into all types of errors. It makes me laugh when fans think we just have to turn up to beat Man u They are 3rd in the league for a reason, they have a squad full of top class players, and for us to be still in with an(outside)chance of being in the mix for a top 4 place bodes well for us in the future under Poch. If we get into the top 6 this season with our squad full of average players will be a great achievment.
    Poch must take the blame for the tactics and starting line up today

  16. Nexus1967

    I know it was an off day for most of the team but I dont put too much blame on Mason and Bentaleb as when Townsend or Chadli inevitably lost the ball they were outnumbered 4 or 5 to 2 and were getting pressed and forced into all types of errors. It makes me laugh when fans think we just have to turn up to beat Man u They are 3rd in the league for a reason, they have a squad full of top class players, and for us to be still in with an(outside)chance of being in the mix for a top 4 place bodes well for us in the future under Poch. If we get into the top 6 this season with our squad full of average players will be a great achievment.
    Poch must take the blame for the tactics and starting line up today

    I don't think anyone thinks we just have to turn up to beat Utd, but actually turning up to compete the game would have helped though. I don't think there is any knee jerks here only calling a spade a spade. Bad day at the office etc.

  17. Joesh

    I don't think anyone thinks we just have to turn up to beat Utd, but actually turning up to compete the game would have helped though. I don't think there is any knee jerks here only calling a spade a spade. Bad day at the office etc.

    Exactly. If you can't criticise your team after a showing like that then when can you?

  18. Just back from the game.. It was pretty miserable but LVG had done a number on us. Pressed up on us knowing we wouldnt play it long. When they had it the gap between Dier and Walker was crazy – Not sure if it was Dier's responsibilty to push walker over or walker to call the line over one. Either way fellani dropped between them leaving young free every time. Looked like it could be 7's at one point but they took the 3-0!

    Was such a bad day i wouldn't go kneejerk and draw any conclusion on anybody however walker had as bad a game as ive seen in a long time. Ade offered us something different and perhaps we should have gone longer earlier once it was obvious we couldnt play through their midfield.

  19. Nexus1967

    I know it was an off day for most of the team but I dont put too much blame on Mason and Bentaleb as when Townsend or Chadli inevitably lost the ball they were outnumbered 4 or 5 to 2 and were getting pressed and forced into all types of errors. It makes me laugh when fans think we just have to turn up to beat Man u They are 3rd in the league for a reason, they have a squad full of top class players, and for us to be still in with an(outside)chance of being in the mix for a top 4 place bodes well for us in the future under Poch. If we get into the top 6 this season with our squad full of average players will be a great achievment.
    Poch must take the blame for the tactics and starting line up today

    Would be good If townsend/Chadli actually got the ball to lose it – I appreciate these two are the normal escaped goats but townsend was back helping defend, but was 2v3 as Mason didn't cover/support. Chadli I agree with struggled, and the only reason I can think he stayed on and not townsend was his height on set pieces.

  20. Jurgen the German

    Exactly. If you can't criticise your team after a showing like that then when can you?

    I'm someone who usually defends the team through most things, but I'm very disappointed with that today. Those lads can do a lot better than that.

  21. demotw

    Would be good If townsend/Chadli actually got the ball to lose it – I appreciate these two are the normal escaped goats but townsend was back helping defend, but was 2v3 as Mason didn't cover/support.

    I want Townsend and Chadli out of the team, and maybe Rose too. The time spent posting about those 3 would then have be directed elsewhere. Or at least, I assume it would.

  22. diego_maradona

    I'm someone who usually defends the team through most things, but I'm very disappointed with that today. Those lads can do a lot better than that.

    But you surely realise inconsistency like today is exactly what you have to expect from a team at this stage of its development?

  23. sc25

    I want Townsend and Chadli out of the team, and maybe Rose too. The time spent posting about those 3 would then have be directed elsewhere. Or at least, I assume it would.

    Rose who has been MOTM for possibly last 3-4 games?

  24. It was a bad day all round, so not rating players, but give poch a bit of credit, after 30 minutes he saw how bad it was and tried to change it by making a early sub in stead of waiting till half time.

  25. sc25

    I want Townsend and Chadli out of the team, and maybe Rose too. The time spent posting about those 3 would then have be directed elsewhere. Or at least, I assume it would.

    It's not escaped goating to call out players who have not been playing well in recent games. The lack of cover provided by Chadli and Townsend have cost us goals recently. Not just today but for example Liverpool's winner.

  26. Gutter Boy

    But you surely realise inconsistency like today is exactly what you have to expect from a team at this stage of its development?

    Of course. But they need to share the disappointment otherwise they won't evolve. not dwell on it, but it was an awful performance and they dipped way below expectation.

    I understand these days will happen but we have more fight than that

  27. It's all very well us loving the fresh blood coming through but lack of experience is what cost us today. Bentaleb, Mason too quiet at times and stagestruck. Dier :( there is a great player in there I am sure but at fault for two goals. Too much of this going on, he should not be playing week in week out. This was a job for Fazio, who lacks mobility but against this United front line that was not going to be the problem.

    Eriksen was anonymous first half but did step up second.

    Kane, isolated, not his fault. But someone needs to help him with his offside game.

    Ultimately this is one that has to stop with the manager but credit to him for making a tactical change on 30 minutes. I'm a big Mousa fan and think he needs to be in for all the big games – play just one of Chadli/Lamela/Townsend and give the attacking midfield trio licence to switch.

    What grates about this match more than anything is that we were so bad we made Man United look good.

    Bad day at the office, got to put this behind us and move on. Feels like top 4 has gone and you know what, I'm happy for us to just start planning for next year. But 9 games left, and all very winable. 70+ points still a real target.

  28. chicken_badge

    Kane, isolated, not his fault. But someone needs to help him with his offside game.

    True enough, but it's not always Kane's fault he finds himself offside. There was one situation first half Chadli took so long to play him in it was inevitable. I watched Harry looking around but no way can he keep his eyes on the player about to pass to him AND look directly behind himself along the line in one and the same instant. United looked like they'd been drilled by a sergeant-major the way they kept their back line and they had the huge advantage of having Harry in their sightlines the whole time.

  29. Because if work getting done on the house I've been away for a couple of weeks and was really looking forward to today. Fancied our chances to get three points.
    That was awful. What happened to the press? Smalling was allowed 40 yards with the ball through midfield! Smalling!!!!!!
    I'm not one for picking on individuals but walker and mason were terrible. But let's be clear here they have both been good this season it's just so Spurs they both pick the same day to have an off day.
    Don't what anyone seen Ade do that's getting him praise of any kind, didn't think he did anything if note.

  30. Defenitely worst perfomance of the season, in its most important moment…
    On the opposite, MU played their best half starting from SAF retirement. At least I didn't see better and I often watch MU.

    Lloris – 3. Conceded 3 goals from 3 shots on target and I can't say all of them were unstoppable (especially the first one).

    Walker – 2. I was amazed when he continiously talked to Dier in the beginning of the 2nd half, looking like a teacher and after that making 3 mistakes in the space of 10 minutes. Awful display defensively and nothing useful going forward.
    Dier – 1. Was a part of the fault at all goals. Fazio should have started.
    Vertonghen – 3. Better than Dier but I can't dismiss his huge regress this season.
    Rose – 4. Best among our defenders. One of the best players on the pitch. Still not ideal defensively and poor in attack considering his usual standards.

    Mason – 2. Totally lost midfield battle, although tried his best until substitution.
    Bentaleb – 2. Would have got 3 or may be even 4, because was solid in 2nd half. But his mistake led to MU's 3rd goal.

    Townsend – 1. His sub on 30th minute and my full support of such Pochettino's decision tell everything themselves.
    Eriksen – 2. Another anonymous perfomance against top-side. Was often outmuscled and made several easy mistakes while passing in attacking third. Could have done smth useful on standards, but MU barely made a foul near their box.
    Chadli – 2. Nothing.

    Kane – 4. Tried his best, ran his socks off, could have scored in the end, but De Gea got a bit lucky. Overall lacked service from our midfield shadows, often becoming the only midfielder who can start the attack.

    Subs:
    Dembele – 4. Should have started. We looked much better with him in midfield.
    Lamela – 2. Nothing.
    Adebayor – 2 or 3 (not really important). Tried to do something, but didn't.

    Poch – 5. Not the best team selection, but he reacted quickly, subbing TOwnsend, who totally failed in this game. Also the team didn't lost the plot completely after the break, looked better defensively and at least tried to score.

    ps: I'm not a pessimistic person, but I don't understand people who give most of our players 6s/7s after such poor perfomance.
    1. We were totally raped in the 1st half, loosing each battle, conceding 3 goals from 3 shots on target, Carrick scored with his head, Fellaini scored with his leg, we were making absolutely silly defensive mistakes, producing fck all in attack. The hole team except Rose, Kane and Vert deserve 1 for this half.
    2. We made one shot on target (on 89th minute!!!). I wonder when was the last time it happened?
    3. We looked better in 2nd half not only because we upped our perfomance, but also because MU started playing in 2nd half, holding the score in their heads. It looked so obvious. F.e. if it was a 2nd match of two games clash somewhere in the cup and they needed to win in 4-5 goals, I'm pretty sure they would have done it this day.

    Although I try to think about best possible variants and stay possitive, I can't see us finishing at top-4 anymore.

  31. Hidden

    I can't see us finishing at top-4 anymore.

    At what point in the season did you ever think we would?

    I've always been confident that West Ham and Southampton wouldn't last the distance above us, but Arsenal, United and Liverpool have always been out of touch IMO.

    We'll get closer next season though, as Arsenal and United are on downward curves and I think Liverpool's growth will round off a little.

    Our big mistake this season was not finishing off Fiorentina at home. With a bit of luck we could have won the EL this season

  32. I think one positive about the performance against United was that we didn't collapse.

    They scored from their first 3 shots or something like that. Yes we were poor, but they were also ruthless (and a bit lucky) to get that early 3-0 lead. Regardless I'm sure I wasn't alone in thinking (and saying) "this could get really ugly". And considering some of our collapses last season (and before) who could blame us for being afraid of just that?

    We didn't collapse though. We did lose 3-0 and that's bad enough, but at least it wasn't 5 or 6. At least we responded reasonably well in the second half and our players didn't completely lose their heads.

  33. braineclipse

    I think one positive about the performance against United was that we didn't collapse.

    They scored from their first 3 shots or something like that. Yes we were poor, but they were also ruthless (and a bit lucky) to get that early 3-0 lead. Regardless I'm sure I wasn't alone in thinking (and saying) "this could get really ugly". And considering some of our collapses last season (and before) who could blame us for being afraid of just that?

    We didn't collapse though. We did lose 3-0 and that's bad enough, but at least it wasn't 5 or 6. At least we responded reasonably well in the second half and our players didn't completely lose their heads.

    lol, what planet are you from ? take this comment in a humorous way please, Utd totally sat back second half and done just enough, even then we created Jack, it was our most inept performance from manager and team of the season, Chadli, Townsend and Walker were nothing short of laughable whilst Mason, Bentaleb and Ericksen were really poor, only losing 3-0 is great, look at our goal difference, I have watched the top ten teams over the last month and we are the worse in pattern and organisation, we are going backwards, form and consistency is not a switch that you can turn on and off, what I cannot understand is how Baldini is still at our club !

  34. man u have played 13 games less than us this season, 13, think about that, at the top level in any sport, 2 things beat you, speed and fatigue, we were tired and were due a letdown game

  35. Mr_B

    man u have played 13 games less than us this season, 13, think about that, at the top level in any sport, 2 things beat you, speed and fatigue, we were tired and were due a letdown game

    So true.

    Headline in the Independent following Chelsea's draw with Southampton referred to 'Tired Chelsea…', but they went in heavily with the boot on our performance at OT referring to us as 'pathetic.' Not a mention anywhere of the excessive fixture pile-up we've just emerged from.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/…d-flat-by-power-of-wayne-rooney-10109633.html

    Also did not LVG complain a couple of months back about the excessive number of games they'd had to play?

    Fudgeing clams.

  36. Jimmy-g

    lol, what planet are you from ? take this comment in a humorous way please, Utd totally sat back second half and done just enough, even then we created Jack, it was our most inept performance from manager and team of the season, Chadli, Townsend and Walker were nothing short of laughable whilst Mason, Bentaleb and Ericksen were really poor, only losing 3-0 is great, look at our goal difference, I have watched the top ten teams over the last month and we are the worse in pattern and organisation, we are going backwards, form and consistency is not a switch that you can turn on and off, what I cannot understand is how Baldini is still at our club !

    I'm from the planet where I watched us lose by 4 goals or more on 5 occasions last season. Where against the top 4 last season we lost by 4 or more goals in 5 of our 8 games.

    I brought up one specific positive.

  37. Spur of the moment

    So true.

    Headline in the Independent following Chelsea's draw with Southampton referred to 'Tired Chelsea…', but they went in heavily with the boot on our performance at OT referring to us as 'pathetic.' Not a mention anywhere of the excessive fixture pile-up we've just emerged from.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/…d-flat-by-power-of-wayne-rooney-10109633.html

    Also did not LVG complain a couple of months back about the excessive number of games they'd had to play?

    Fudgeing clams.

    We have played a lot of games this season, however we are starting to use this as a excuse and saying it has killed us. Just had a quick look at other reams to see how many they have played. And its pretty much the same.

    Spurs : 48 games
    Liverpool : 47 games
    Arse : 44 games
    Chelski : 44 games.

  38. parklane1

    We have played a lot of games this season, however we are starting to use this as a excuse and saying it has killed us. Just had a quick look at other reams to see how many they have played. And its pretty much the same.

    Spurs : 48 games
    Liverpool : 47 games
    Arse : 44 games
    Chelski : 44 games.

    It's one of a number of factors worth being aware of.

  39. braineclipse

    It's one of a number of factors worth being aware of.

    I agree but some are saying we have played many more games then our challengers and its the reason we are failing, its just not true.

  40. parklane1

    I agree but some are saying we have played many more games then our challengers and its the reason we are failing, its just not true.

    I don't think anyone is saying that this is the only reason we're failing???

    It's one of a number of factors. We're also a very young team. We have a squad that is short on quality in depth in several key areas. We're developing in our first season under our new manager. We're competing with teams with significantly higher budgets than ours.

    Of course you can claim that all of those are being used as excuses. But if results are to be looked at in context and with some deeper understanding I don't understand how those factors shouldn't be considered.

  41. braineclipse

    I don't think anyone is saying that this is the only reason we're failing???

    It's one of a number of factors. We're also a very young team. We have a squad that is short on quality in depth in several key areas. We're developing in our first season under our new manager. We're competing with teams with significantly higher budgets than ours.

    Of course you can claim that all of those are being used as excuses. But if results are to be looked at in context and with some deeper understanding I don't understand how those factors shouldn't be considered.

    My point is we have not played MANY more games then our rivals, its a excuse I have heard many times this season and I say again its not true. There are as you say many good reasons why we are not performing as well as we would like, you have named some of them.

    The excuse we have played MANY more games then others is as big a myth as the one about the EL.

  42. parklane1

    My point is we have not played MANY more games then our rivals, its a excuse I have heard many times this season and I say again its not true. There are as you say many good reasons why we are not performing as well as we would like, you have named some of them.

    The excuse we have played MANY more games then others is as big a myth as the one about the EL.

    We have played many more games than Manchester Untied and Southampton though. They are much more our league rivals than Man City and Chelsea who you seem to be comparing us to. That to me makes it pretty clear that the number of games thing is not a "big myth". It's just not true compared to all of our rivals and there's not a deep level of complexity needed to understand that.

    There is also a certain interaction between such factors I believe. Playing a lot of games along with having a squad short on quality in depth seem to be obvious as factors that will combine rather poorly.

  43. braineclipse

    I'm from the planet where I watched us lose by 4 goals or more on 5 occasions last season. Where against the top 4 last season we lost by 4 or more goals in 5 of our 8 games.

    I brought up one specific positive.

    We don't create when we have the ball and we don't defend well when the opposition has it, to add to this the midfield five have become very good at giving it away, its performance, consistency and progression I look for and I don't see any of these three, looking for positives is hard in fact I can see us getting worse not better.

  44. What is amusing is that this was the first game in a long while that we actually had a full week to prepare for, with two days off given to our players to boot. And we still put in our most tired performance yet. :p

    And as for the press not talking about the number of games we've played with a tiny 'trusted' group of players, that's because Poch has been honorable enough to avoid using that as an excuse in his pressers.

  45. Jimmy-g

    We don't create when we have the ball and we don't defend well when the opposition has it, to add to this the midfield five have become very good at giving it away, its performance, consistency and progression I look for and I don't see any of these three, looking for positives is hard in fact I can see us getting worse not better.

    I suppose you were one of those expecting us to lose quite comfortably away to a 4th placed Manchester United team then.

    DubaiSpur

    What is amusing is that this was the first game in a long while that we actually had a full week to prepare for, with two days off given to our players to boot. And we still put in our most tired performance yet. :p

    And as for the press not talking about the number of games we've played with a tiny 'trusted' group of players, that's because Poch has been honorable enough to avoid using that as an excuse in his pressers.

    Certainly a bit surprising to me too. Then again, I'm no sports fitness guy. Not beyond my understanding that there might be a bit of a delayed reaction physically to months of fixture congestion followed by a week off. Certainly doesn't seem beyond reasonable that there might have been a negative psychological reaction to that in our group of players…

    To me the most important point now is how we react to this obviously very disappointing performance.

  46. braineclipse

    Certainly a bit surprising to me too. Then again, I'm no sports fitness guy. Not beyond my understanding that there might be a bit of a delayed reaction physically to months of fixture congestion followed by a week off. Certainly doesn't seem beyond reasonable that there might have been a negative psychological reaction to that in our group of players…

    To me the most important point now is how we react to this obviously very disappointing performance.

    I agree, it is conceivable (if still amusing) that the players were running on inertia and muscle memory for the most part during our recent run of games, and that this week off finally brought home to them how tired they really were. Either way, I think we'll see an improvement from this, so I'm not too worried overall.

  47. braineclipse

    I suppose you were one of those expecting us to lose quite comfortably away to a 4th placed Manchester United team then.

    you have shot yourself in the foot mate, look at our results there for the last three seasons.

  48. Jimmy-g

    you have shot yourself in the foot mate, look at our results there for the last three seasons.

    So you did expect something? Despite looking for consistency, performance and progression without success? Despite you thinking that we're getting worse, not better? Despite positives being hard to find? Because in previous years, under different managers for both clubs, we've gotten wins…?

    And you think I've shot myself in the foot by asking if there's a consistency in your views on our performances this season and your expectations for this game. Good for you…

  49. So it's okay for the same paper to allow Chelsea the excuse of tiredness whilst putting the boot in to us. Okay then.

    We were always going to hit the wall sooner or later following such an intense sequence of games. That's not making excuses, it's acknowledging reality.

  50. braineclipse

    So you did expect something? Despite looking for consistency, performance and progression without success? Despite you thinking that we're getting worse, not better? Despite positives being hard to find? Because in previous years, under different managers for both clubs, we've gotten wins…?

    And you think I've shot myself in the foot by asking if there's a consistency in your views on our performances this season and your expectations for this game. Good for you…

    The fact that we got hammered on Sunday after our previous recent performances at OT must point to a drop in standards irrelevant of manager and player changes, I reiterate that we have gone backwards, we have no plan B and MP will not change tactics or formations, we have been sussed and are predictable in our play, I respect your right to opinion but has always it is that of a strawman.

  51. braineclipse

    We have played many more games than Manchester Untied and Southampton though. They are much more our league rivals than Man City and Chelsea who you seem to be comparing us to. That to me makes it pretty clear that the number of games thing is not a "big myth". It's just not true compared to all of our rivals and there's not a deep level of complexity needed to understand that.

    There is also a certain interaction between such factors I believe. Playing a lot of games along with having a squad short on quality in depth seem to be obvious as factors that will combine rather poorly.

    Split it which way you want to, its a excuse and like I say if its not to many games its the myth about the EL etc etc.

  52. Jimmy-g

    The fact that we got hammered on Sunday after our previous recent performances at OT must point to a drop in standards irrelevant of manager and player changes, I reiterate that we have gone backwards, we have no plan B and MP will not change tactics or formations, we have been sussed and are predictable in our play, I respect your right to opinion but has always it is that of a strawman.

    Or it just meant that for two years running we turned up, played well, hung on for dear life and got huge slices of luck (missed chances and ref decisions). On Sunday we had a real off day and utd took their chances. This year we are in a much better position and have shown more than we have since Bale left. Chill the fudge out

  53. LCLC

    Or it just meant that for two years running we turned up, played well, hung on for dear life and got huge slices of luck (missed chances and ref decisions). On Sunday we had a real off day and utd took their chances. This year we are in a much better position and have shown more than we have since Bale left. Chill the fudge out

    I am chilled out, Braineclipse and myself always seem to wind each other up, my argument is that we have regressed, is Fazio and Dier (at present) better than Dawson ? I don't think so, Dawson would have handled Fellani a lot better, Utd`s goals were mainly down to sunday morning errors from us, we don't even look to be doing basic things correctly, you are saying that we are in a much better position so it will be no problem to have a higher league finishing position than last year then.

  54. Jimmy-g

    I am chilled out, Braineclipse and myself always seem to wind each other up, my argument is that we have regressed, is Fazio and Dier (at present) better than Dawson ? I don't think so, Dawson would have handled Fellani a lot better, Utd`s goals were mainly down to sunday morning errors from us, we don't even look to be doing basic things correctly, you are saying that we are in a much better position so it will be no problem to have a higher league finishing position than last year then.

    You are having a laugh, next you will be saying that we should never have sold Caulker. Both players have found their level playing for teams in a relegation fight.

  55. parklane1

    You are having a laugh, next you will be saying that we should never have sold Caulker. Both players have found their level playing for teams in a relegation fight.

    Unfair on Dawson who i think was harshly treated by some fans but had reached his expiry date with us. Caulker i agree lots of early promise but ended up like Wes Brown, Anton Ferdinand and i suspect Chris Smalling.

    Dier is a step up in class on all of those.

  56. imcallingbullsh*t

    Unfair on Dawson who i think was harshly treated by some fans but had reached his expiry date with us. Caulker i agree lots of early promise but ended up like Wes Brown, Anton Ferdinand and i suspect Chris Smalling.

    Dier is a step up in class on all of those.

    I loved Dawson but he was past his best ( and had been for a while), as for Caulker I think the fact that he was home grown influenced some fans into thinking he was better then he actually was, ( to be honest I see the same situation with Mason, but I hope he proves me wrong), the fact with Caulker is that he is likely to suffer his second relegation with different teams.

    I agree Dier looks very promising even if I think he needs to drop out of our team at the moment.

  57. parklane1

    You are having a laugh, next you will be saying that we should never have sold Caulker. Both players have found their level playing for teams in a relegation fight.

    I never rated Caulker and got stick on here when people were raving about him but thought that Dawson done a good job for us, Dawson would have challenged Fellani in the air and supported Walker better than Dier, are you saying that our defence has been acceptable this season ?

  58. Jimmy-g

    The fact that we got hammered on Sunday after our previous recent performances at OT must point to a drop in standards irrelevant of manager and player changes, I reiterate that we have gone backwards, we have no plan B and MP will not change tactics or formations, we have been sussed and are predictable in our play, I respect your right to opinion but has always it is that of a strawman.

    I disagree with everything you said. I would expand further, but I see no point.

  59. Jimmy-g

    I never rated Caulker and got stick on here when people were raving about him but thought that Dawson done a good job for us, Dawson would have challenged Fellani in the air and supported Walker
    better than Dier, are you saying that our defence has been acceptable this season ?

    I never said that, my post was in response to you saying that Dawson is better then Fazio and Dier.

  60. parklane1

    I never said that, my post was in response to you saying that Dawson is better then Fazio and Dier.

    I am saying it was better with Dawson in it, anyway my original moan was that I am not impressed with our progress in general this year.

  61. Jimmy-g

    I am saying it was better with Dawson in it, anyway my original moan was that I am not impressed with our progress in general this year.[/QUOTE]

    Even when taking into consideration the amount of changes we've seen in our squad and first team over the last year and the year before?

  62. imcallingbullsh*t

    Unfair on Dawson who i think was harshly treated by some fans but had reached his expiry date with us. Caulker i agree lots of early promise but ended up like Wes Brown, Anton Ferdinand and i suspect Chris Smalling.

    Dier is a step up in class on all of those.

    How do you know Dier is a step up? At the same age all those mentioned players had similar ability, theres no way of knowing if Dier is going to fare any better at this stage….

  63. harr1984

    How do you know Dier is a step up? At the same age all those mentioned players had similar ability, theres no way of knowing if Dier is going to fare any better at this stage….

    Well i think he better than all of those players already!

  64. braineclipse

    Even when taking into consideration the amount of changes we've seen in our squad and first team over the last year and the year before?

    Not really, I watch us play now and don't feel excitement, our players are all much of a muchness,ie the midfielders,there is nothing much to choose between any of them, if say Milner came and played for us he would be more effective than anyone we have in midfield, I cant get my head around how much money we have spent for so little return, also the system we want to play seems sterile without having exceptional players, its just the way I feel.

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